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Give MO the Swiss Guard

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by QueensGambit, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    I don't think you understand the scale of the NCA. This is the largest army in the Human Sphere. You would have to add all the other planetary armies in PanO to have something larger. And the PanO army is the largest in the Sphere too, because it has the widest territory to protect.
    Even an elite unit has a lot of members in an army of this scale. You can't compare Aleph being able to give one Plasma rifle to one super advanced Recreation or even O-12 being able to partially equip one of its unit with a Plasma carbine and NCA being able to equip a part of the Swiss Guard with Plasma weapons.
     
  2. SpectralOwl

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    This, very this. We only see one or two of these guys on the table, but imagine putting yourself in the shoes of someone trying to actually attack the NeoVatican. Whole platoons of these troops would be able to rip through almost anything else in the Sphere without breaking a sweat. You'd hear gunfire, and out of nowhere your whole squad would be dead and your armour would be in pieces. Even the humble MULTI Rifle the Hacker carries is meant to be one of the most complicated and effective small arms money can buy, and only the stupidly exotic ammunition the foreigners field lets them compete with its versatility.
     
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  3. Jimneysweep

    Jimneysweep Member

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    Yeah, but this kind of proves my point about how the description in the fluff doesn't translate to reality. Obviously it has to be watered down for game balance, but this description of the Swiss does not represent how it is in reality. These guys are the best trained soldiers in PanO, serving across multiple different branches of the PanO military. surely that at least qualifies them for the "specialist operative" skill?

    Exactly! if the unit has access to all the cutting edge tech from all the corners of PanO, surely they have access to something more interesting than standard issue HMG's, Missiles launchers and Multi Rifles.
     
  4. Delta57Dash

    Delta57Dash Well-Known Member

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    Plasma Rifles are not "cutting edge tech from PanO". PanO has 0 access to Plasma tech. The Human Sphere has an EXTREMELY limited ability to produce plasma weaponry, probably numbering no more than a few hundred carbines (which go to the Lynx Operatives) and a SINGLE Plasma Rifle (which Hector has).

    The idea that a PanO unit, even an elite one such as Swiss Guard, would have access to Plasma RIFLES (not carbine) without a MAJOR change in the lore is honestly completely laughable.

    It'd be like arguing that a unit in Napoleonic times should have access to an AK-47. Utterly ridiculous.
     
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  5. Shrooms

    Shrooms Well-Known Member

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    @Ayadan You are assuming that because NCA is big, the Swiss Guard is big? Is that backed by canon or an assumption?
    A unit recruiting from a very small recruitment base, with strenuous training regimens, and a role primarily associated with defence of a single complex?
    And the presence of plasma rifles in the unit selection is not indicative of widespread use throughout the regiment, they could be fluffed as experimental. Remember this is a game where named characters seem to turn up in every engagement, so it’s not like distribution throughout the sphere influences AVA!
    And as you point out, O12 can do it now as well.
    Besides, I’m more interested in gameplay than fluff....
     
  6. Daireann

    Daireann Well-Known Member

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    To talk about Swiss guard and Aquila (yes, they are too)
    It is a little sorry, that this miniatures have place only in Vanilla and discontinued sectorial.

    And it was a strange to see them in a booster packs alpha and beta. Akalis have place in NA2 armies... at least.
    But those two haven’t. Other booster packs are not that bad, cause their units are useful at least in one of sectorials of their faction.

    So, I would be happy for the Swiss Guard if he would get his place somewhere else.
    (But I also think, that MO is not that place)
     
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  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Swiss Guard armour is super comfortable, you can wear it all day and it's no more fatiguing than a heavy jacket, you can even get a half decent night's sleep in it! It's not like Zuyong armour that constantly smells like yesterday's farts, or Asawira armour that pinches the crotch in the most uncomfortable way if you turn your hips too fast. It even has a built in boiling vessel for making hot chocolate on long watches!

    This is what makes it the most advanced armour in the Sphere!
     
  8. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Yeah but I want them to be more like the real life Swiss Guard. Because that would be awesome. Awesome like a Crosier with cool shoulder armor and a hipster haircut. Swiss Guard wants in on the cool new Church Army! Swiss Guard wants new sculpts that demonstrate his coolness. Swiss Guard wants a Power Halberd. Hell, Swiss Guard wants a Chain Halberd, why not? Swiss Guard wouldn't say no to a Plasma Halberd, thanks for asking.
     
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  9. Jimneysweep

    Jimneysweep Member

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    Cool. So seeing as the suggestion of plasma is so specific that it's "laughable", what about other weapons and equipment then? HRMC's? Guided missile launchers? Or what about weapons that we haven't seen yet that PanO might be working on?

    This. I don't understand why people seem to be struggling with the suggestion that a unit that is described as having access to all the super tech from the most advanced faction, should actually have that represented on the unit a little more visibly than "it has BS15".
     
  10. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Did you miss my post about the boiling vessel for making hot chocolate? No other powered armour in the Sphere has that!
     
  11. SpectralOwl

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    The Swiss and Aquila are big draws for PanO as a whole, being the only BS15 infantry in the game that aren't snowflake characters with giant price tags and packing the most advanced military technology the faction has, as well as striking models. The boosters primarily support Code One and PanO wouldn't feel right without its top guns, so they go in, Sectorial hiatus or no. Also NCA is going to come back at some point, even if the only faction to return from neglect so far is Shas, so it wouldn't do to relocate such a big draw for the Sectorial.
     
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  12. Jimneysweep

    Jimneysweep Member

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    It's genuinely one of my favorite facts that all British tanks and armoured vehicles have one of these. So it's now my head cannon that the Swiss do too. (It's in the backpack!)
     
  13. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Man, everyone always forgets about the poor Guarda De Assaulto.

    But your point is valid, BS15 on a platform that isn't a TAG, top of the line cyborg supersoldier, or alien who cloned the skills of a top of the line cyborg super soldier, is extremely rare and advanced.

    That's what inspired my post, plus the Swiss' love of hot chocolate.

    My point is also that advanced can mean ergonomic and logistical benefits that don't necessary show up in game stats. If a Swiss Guard's armour can run for a week on a single charge, while ORC armour needs a charge every day or so, that's a huge leap forwards in capabilities that can't really be represented in the wargame profile.
     
  14. SpectralOwl

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    There's been one, the same one, in stock at my FLGS since I started playing years ago. He just can't seem to draw any interest, and I know at least three Acon starters have been sold there as well as more general PanO stuff than I can count.

    I'm honestly tempted to pick it up myself at this point, and probably will if Vanilla ever gets a worthwhile generic LT that isn't three Fusiliers.
     
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  15. Jimneysweep

    Jimneysweep Member

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    I don't disagree with anything you have said. I love using the swiss, the Swiss hacker has won me many games. but my point is literally the last thing you said. All the cool things that are written about the Swiss Guard don't translate into the profile outside of it's BS, and I just hope CB add some new load-outs to the unit that can move it in that direction.
     
  16. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    People wanting alien tech in PanO reminds me how I was a few months after starting the game, right at the moment when PanO was in a huge crisis identity after HSN3. Yes, our tech isn't as shiny as Nomads' one. Yes, our Swiss Guards don't do that much outside of shooting things straight dead. But they are shooting dead what the other factions call "the best" and come out of it alive. That's not something to put aside. And they already have the best guns we have in PanO outside of the Feuerbach and the MULTI Marksman rifle. Maybe K1 Marksman rifles could count to, but they are rather poor in reactive compared to MULTI weapons. But again, in term of lore and gameplay, why give them those weapons when ORCs, Uhlans and Aquila Guards already have them and will most likely be here on the battlefield as well?

    The new GdA is a killer, you should really get it.
     
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  17. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    I still think you're selling short how impressive BS15 is on a human S2 trooper.
     
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  18. Sedral

    Sedral White Banner Officier

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    Friendly reminder that most unit's lore are written as in-universe propaganda/marketing, so it's kinda normal if it doesn't translate that well in-game. After all, the swiss guard's tech is just a rip-off of yu-jing's hac tao.
     
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  19. Vijel

    Vijel Member

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    But he has so much more than just BS15! If you compare the Swiss Guard to the ORC (which is the real boring, standard HI of PanO), the Swiss has more BS, more ARM, more BTS, Surprise Attack, Camouflage, Hidden Deployment and Stealth.
    That is quit the difference in my humble opinion.
    As for the weapons, the HMG ist pretty much the best performing weapon for S2 HI in PanO. Sure you could ask for mor variety like say AP Marksman Rifle, Feuerbach, etc. but the HMG is still one of the most efficient weapons for premire gunfighters.
    HRMC is just a TAG weapon in PanO. They cant fit it on a S2 HI.

    But these models already exist! They are called Grey Knight Paladin! :D
    Altough i do understand your desire for a new model for such an iconic unit.
    On the other hand i think the HMG Swiss Guard model is one of the most badass models in all of PanO.
     
  20. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Don't think we need more "overlap" (if you can still call it that with MO having 10 Forwarde Deployment options) with IA.
    The PanO "HI" Sectorial doesn't need Swiss Guards and would have a hard time fitting them into lists anyway. The fluff is clear they show up in Vanilla and MO can also happen do be present. They never serve in the Military Orders.
    Let IA have their Hac Tao TO HI who is better in Vanilla anyway.
    MO already has Joan x2 who is better in Vanilla anyway.
    MO is also one of the largest (or the largest) Sectorials in existence, they're seriously bloated.
    MO also has the excellently broken AF Montesa Tik, which no one else gets and I'll take that guy any day over Swiss Guards in MO.

    The Plasma argument doesn't stand.
    "A few years ago" in N3 someone in the Human Sphere reverse engineered Plasma Tech and started building Rifles and Carbines in small numbers.
    That means there are blue prints. Exact same scenario as any other stolen tech (i.e. HI TO Camo tech) at some point production gets ramped up and you can roll it out to whole units.
    There isn't enough Plasma in the game that I would complain about a Swiss Plasma option, that would be very distinct within the Faction and pretty neat. The Multi Rifle variants are kinda crappy as they are.
    Does it have to be Plasma on Swiss? Heck no.
    But it's not completely out of the question to poke at.
     
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