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Ghost: Jumper LX and Idle

Discussion in '[Archived]: N3 Rules' started by DukeofEarl, Sep 11, 2018.

  1. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Just had a thought and figured it was worth tossing up for discussion. Would the Idle of the Aspara when the link they are supporting activates be enough to toss her out of Suppressive Fire?

    I'm wanting no, but leaning yes
     
  2. MindwormGames

    MindwormGames Well-Known Member

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    The Suppressive Fire state is automatically cancelled in any of these cases:

    • The trooper declares an Order.

    » Each time that a Remote in a Fireteam with the ACTIVE PROXY LZ Marker is activated by an Order or an ARO, the G: Jumper LZ Trooper will also be activated, and will be considered to have declared Idle.

    I think this means the answer is yes, you'll drop out of Suppressive Fire, because declaring Idle cancels the Suppressive Fire state.
     
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  3. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    That was my gut as well. Would be a great backfield defense option if it worked sadly.
     
  4. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The Jumper LZ rules require a revision. There is no way to declare "Idle" in ARO, since it is only an Active Turn movement order, and not listed in the ARO options...

    Fuck.
     
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  5. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    They don't really need revision. Forcibly declaring Idle is the default outcome for failed AROs and is not regulated by the rules preventing it from being declared. Basically the Jumper LZ rules gives you the exception necessary to declare an Idle and then forces you to do so.
     
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  6. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Aside from messing with people already insisting that Idle is "declared" to avoid generating ARO inside of a Fireteam with their troops with Stealth, or that won't break their Camo state (their reasoning: it does not matter an attack action was declared by the team/coordinated order, since the troops with Stealth will do "idle").

    Being clear with the rules seems hard enough, messing the waters for the sake of it, while the document already requires a revision, seems like calling trouble for the sake of it from my point of view... Specially since Marionette is in a similar situation, but was worded in a correct way.
     
  7. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Could you explain the issue in a different way? I'm not seeing the problem.
     
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  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The rules being written in a way that contradict themselves? Oh, wait...

    I fail to see why it needs an exception to have Idle as a skill declared in ARO when the Puppetter already has a mechanic for such measures. Having a thousand ways to describe the same thing insert errors...
     
  9. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    • However, G: Marionette troopers will apply the rules for Fireteams when declaring that ARO, while any ARO declared by their Controller will be considered an Idle.
    Puppet Masters also declare Idle in ARO.
     
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  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Nope. "will be considered Idle" is not the same thing as "DECLARES Idle" as ARO.

    In ARO you can perform an Idle because you declared something not legal or you failed to meet conditions (for example, Engage outside of range). But it was insisted several times in several threads that the only AROs that can be declared are the ones with the ARO label (of which Idle never had one).

    I insist in making this difference because there are people who mixes declaration and execution already, and the wording of the rules has been asked to be clearer (and I always understood, consistent and with as few exceptions as possible). Since the Skills PDF needs to be re-published anyway (because NCO is missing), there is a chance there to reword a skill in a way that complies with the current rules 100% instead of introducing a gratuitous divergence.
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    NCO is waiting on confirmation from CB on whether it's being added to the game yet. It's not 'missing' from the PDF as such.

    And you're misreading Marionette. I agree that the grammar in the sentence is tricky, but it's definitely referring to declaration not performance.
     
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  12. clever handle

    clever handle Well-Known Member

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    You can't decloare "Idle" as an ARO (else models in hidden deployment could elect to drop out of hidden state into marker state (as idle would allow the placement of a TO camo marker without breaking state by dodging). Both of these skills give conditions, and then state that regardless what the controller declares, they perform idle. In both cases the rules as written tell you exactly how they operate. You may feel that they are an exception to the established mode of play, but if so, you'll just have to consider these interactions and exception to the norm.

    In the case of G: Marionette:
    a) Active Turn:
    the team is activated by spending orders on the controller. All models declare the same skills, however with certain skills only the troop leader performs them, the rest have the IDLE skill forced on them.

    b) Reactive Turn:
    the controller and each troop member generate ARO's as individual models. The troop members may declare any valid ARO's and benefit from the appropriate link bonus if applicable. The controller may declare any valid ARO's in response to activations within his LOF or ZOC, however if the controller elects to ARO the IDLE skill is forced in lieu of the declared skill (note, the controller may still elect not to ARO in response)


    In the case of G:JumperZ
    ... seriously its clear as day. If the link activates so does the controller. If the link activates by receiving an order, or by one or members electing to ARO, the controller is also forced to activate and declare the Idle short skill. Yes this means the controller is vulnerable to ARO's, mines and other deployables. Yes this means they can't maintain suppression fire if the link is active.
     
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  13. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    So why release the profile? They have made a model ITS legal with invalid/non-existent rules.
     
  14. Artichesus

    Artichesus Member

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    Let's remember and demand that CB bring Corathar lvl2 into glorious existence
     
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  15. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Mandatory on all Tohaa profiles. Cancels all effects of Symbiomates on the table.
     
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  16. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Ohhhh no my one option of several lists a skill I can't use right now. The World is fucking ending.
     
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  17. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    The sole HMG option pays for a skill that is unusable. I see people complain for less.
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    It's still a thoroughly good profile. NCO appears to be ~1pt.
     
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  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Yeah, the cost of NCO on a 40+ point unit is pretty much rounding-error level.
     
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  20. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    10 points for an HMG when the Yadu doesn't have to give up the Combi Rifle (and as such do not really have any weak rangebands)? That's a unique weapons configuration and a pretty strong overlap-discount
     
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