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Getting started and searching for help :)

Discussion in 'Combined Army' started by Ba5terD, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I started with the Onyx 300 pt box, so I'm a little biased, but my thoughts on the "starting with a sectorial vs. vanilla" debate is that it's a lot easier to plan purchases around a sectorial. CA has quite a few different playstyles up it's sleeves, but much of that is due to the different sectorials offering very different approaches to the game (they were mentioned upthread, so I won't repeat them here). Sticking to one, then, might make it a bit easier to list-build as well.

    The absolute best way to get into the game is through one of the two-player battle boxes, but that requires you to (a) want the sectorial in the box and (b) have a friend that wants the other half of it. The soon-to-be-released Operation: Wildfire is the only one with CA units (Shasvastii), but from a couple of your previous replies, that might be the sectorial of choice for you anyway (lots of misdirection and one hell of a centerpiece in Sheskiin). That said, that box and one other unit are the only updated models for the sectorial so far, so you might need to wait on the release train for a while to fill it out.

    Last thing to note: CB has an incredibly lax proxy policy. Basically, as long as it's the same silhouette value, it's fair game (and I mean, in tournaments!). Don't go overboard, but if you end up getting some basic troopers only, you can proxy them as other things to see what they do. The only "essentials" then for any CA player no matter their sectorial of choice are the drone box (or two!), a couple Imetron/Ikadron blisters, and the Obsidon Mechanoid (lovingly called "Doc Worm" around these parts). After that, it REALLY depends on your playstyle.
     
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  2. smog

    smog Well-Known Member
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    Seconding this. The new shasvastii caliban could be the hidden-under-camo heavy-punching unit in the midfield you are looking for
     
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  3. Ba5terD

    Ba5terD Member

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    Soa s I noticed recently, we gotta talk about roles in the game.

    I appears, that several roles can be filled by several models.

    Having played a primitive game ( Warhammer AoS ) before, I don't really know what the roles would be like in Infinity.

    Could you enlighten me there?
     
  4. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    The first thing you have to get out of your head is that you can make a list and use it all the time. List composition (specifically the number and type of specialists you bring) is highly dependent on the mission you are playing. Tournaments will always give you a heads up about which missions you will be playing and you will get to make lists based on that information. It is quite possible to route the enemy force and lose because they retreated having completed more objectives than you.

    That said, I wouldn't get into those more specialist dependent missions until you've had a few "shoot-'em-up" games with ~5 models to get a handle on the game's basic differences from other Wargames (order expenditure, face-to-face rolls, line of fire, and measuring).
     
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  5. Ba5terD

    Ba5terD Member

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    That's really good to know, thank you!

    Until now the common "play" style for Warhammer systems is...to take that one army list that beats the shi* out of all others. BTW that was, was made me leave Warhammer there.

    Wich roles would you concider to be the most important, that would basically fit all games?

    I'd think something like:

    Offensive units
    Defensive units
    Support

    Is it the case too, that the armies to rely on a lot of buffs, that should be applied all around the units?
    As I read, that might be the case actually.
     
  6. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Ahahahahahaha. Sorry, but for a short answer:

    No.

    Now, for a more complex, and actually useful answer: Infinity is way different from the Distinguished Competition. This isn't a game about smashing your toy soldiers on the enemy toy soldiers (although you will do it a lot), it's about completing your mission.

    This means you really shouldn't worry about whether a model is an Offensive or Defensive type, because that's secondary to whether that model can accomplish the mission you want. Let me give an example:

    The Umbra Legate that comes in the Starter pack. It can be a nifty attack piece with a light machinegun (spitfire) or it can be a specialist with a hacking device plus, or it can be a generalist model with an anti-armor gun (K1 rifle). It also has a lot of close combat skills and has some defenses against shooting in the form of a basic level of camouflage (mimetism). You'd think with all this stuff this guy would be a great offensive piece, right?

    And yeah, in the right mission, he could be. Let's say you're playing a mission like Biotechvore where most of the combat happens at the middle of the table. Then the umbra is a nice aggression tool because he has fast movement and can pack a gun that's good at mid ranges. However, if you're playing something like Capture and Protect, the umbra becomes next to useless, because he can't fight at long range, and he can't survive in short range either, so he can't defend your beacon and he kinda sucks at running across the table to get the enemy beacon.

    Now, this is a short and shallow example, but my point is: the mission matters more. It's important you understand your models are tools. You need to learn the basics of the rules, the basics of what your dudes and dudettes do and how to use them to their best ability. Don't worry about fitting them into a basic category.
     
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  7. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    You can certainly work with those distinctions. IIRC the Onyx thread stickied above has a good rundown of the types of troops that fit into those molds (only for Onyx, obviously).

    Offensive pieces are always needed in some capacity, even if only to murder the other team's specialists before they can complete objectives. However, they come in several flavors: Heavy assault will usually move+shoot their way up the board using high armor and more wounds to shrug off opposing fire (Sogarats or Suryats in Morats, Gwailo or Sheskiin in Shas, almost any TAG, etc...). Subterfuge assault will use things like camo or Airborn Deployment to get to places without having to fight their way there. Infiltration or Forward Deployment also work here as you start in a better position to take advantage of certain range bands.

    Defensive units are ones where you aren't really making too many trade-offs when firing in your reactive turn vs your active turn. Troops with weapons with natively low burst and/or impact templates like missile launchers and sniper rifles aren't losing a lot when fired as an ARO (burst reduced to 1). There are skills that help here as well. Total Reaction, or Neurocinetics (CA doesn't have this, though) increase burst for ARO fire. Lastly, skills that keep a troop alive after a hit work as well (Dogged, for example). Some notable troops here are the ubiquitous Q-Drone (Total Reaction + Mimetism :scream:), Noctifer (TO Camo, Dogged, missile launcher), the Unidron Plasma Sniper (or missile launcher)... especially in a 5-"man" link team in Onyx.

    Support units, I guess, would consist of your specialists:
    • Doctors and paramedics bring up fallen fleshy units (though there aren't too many cases where it's order efficient to do so).
    • Engineers bring up fallen mechy units, can heal them even if they haven't fallen yet, and repair certain status effects.
    • Hackers... well hackers have their own subclassifications depending on what type of hacking device they have. They are also the only ones capable of "buffing" you units:
      • An EIHD (regular hacking device for CA) is an all-round basic device with a potent anti-hacking ARO in Sucker Punch.
      • EIHD+ gets a few upgrades from the basic one, most notably "Cybermask" which lets you creep up on your opponent.
      • CA has, arguably, the best EVO hacker (it actually has a gun) which is your "buff-bot" with the highest number of pure support programs (some targeted, some affect everyone). All three of these devices have the program "Assisted Fire" which allows a selected remote to ignore cover and grants it shock ammunition to all its BS weapons (through the granting of the skill "Marksmaship Level 2").
      • AHDs (assault hacking device) are used to lockdown TAGs and Heavy Infantry, but are the rarest hackers due to their relatively high cost for a limited role and the presence of the last type of hacker: the Killer Hacker.
      • KHDs have one purpose... they kill other hackers. Their program set is geared toward that goal and it is this supposedly limited role that makes them the cheapest hacking devices (both in terms of points and SWC). Like the EIHD+, they also have "Cybermask" which can make them dangerous to normal troopers as well.
      • Hackers can only have one active program at a time (and a trooper can only benefit from one program at a time), so there actually isn't a lot of "buffing" going on aside from the two programs I mentioned + maybe Kaleidoscope. Some people use overclock, but that will be list dependent (it only works on remotes with a repeater).
    This is probably a lot to take in, but I'd suggest reading the stickied guides at the top of this subforum to get a taste for what individual units can do in these roles and the playstyle you prefer. Feel free to ask questions in those threads as well, or if you want to keep things general here, that's fine too :).
     
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  8. Ba5terD

    Ba5terD Member

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    You Ladies & Gentlemen are great!

    I am so glad I leaved GW's Warhammer stuff! It was just a mess to see thos epower creeps smashing someone's army oer and over again. Having spent a fu**ton of money worth nothing on the table wasn't great at all.

    So what I am gonna do now is to have a look at the catual missions, what is kind of played the most. Guess with that knowledge I am gonna hop into the guides, as @Sabin76 mentioned.

    Great thanks to you all! If anyone would have to tell something, that would be good to know for the very beginning, let me know :D

    I am very eager to seek knowledge :)
     
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  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    Yeah, just as DaRedOne said, Mission Comes First ;) There is no winning list in this game (for myself I haven't played the same list more than 2-3 times, there's too much fun stuff to try), instead the army list is a toolbox, with actual tools and their use depending on the objectives and opposing army. That's the mindset to have when creating list: you're putting together a toolbox before going out to do something specific. Do you need a hammer? Set of screwdrivers? A welder? Pair of pliers? Drills for wood or metal? A bit of everything? Guides indeed help to answer a lot of such questions :)
     
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  10. Ba5terD

    Ba5terD Member

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    So I guess I found my way into the game :)

    Thank you for your help!

    For new players, like me, I'd suggest to follow the following steps:

    1. Decide, whether you want to play competetive or not ( any vanilla faction is competetive playable due to balance )
    2. From there find a faction you like ( if competetive, I'd suggest vanilla factions about sectorials ).
    3. Read some guides to your chosen faction in this forum.
    4. Find roles you want to have in your combat unit ( offense, defense, button smashers, etc. ).
    5. Don't be afraid to make mistakes!
    6. Be ready to learn ( but really, that's what makes this game great! ).
    7. Use the forum for further assistance and tips.

    Coming from a Games Workshop game system, I can absolutely recommend to use this forum for honest opinions and valuable tips!

    Have fun all of you!

    Cheers///
     
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  11. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    I recommend reading about all factions a bit before settling for one of them; and also to check their models in CB's webpage; you have to like the mechanics of your army and their models. I also think it's better to start with Vanilla and then pick 1 sectorial of that faction.

    For example, in my case:
    I liked the camo spam mechanic of Ariadna, but their models didn't click with me and the Ariadna's hacking game is weak (something I like) so I discarted it.
    I was looking for a more "cyberpunk" style. After reading about all the major ones, I really liked all the dirty tricks, versatility and hacking of Nomads, acepting they aren't as good as other armies in a direct clash. I also liked their models a lot. With all that info I made my choice, so that's my main faction now.
    But that works for me because Nomads fits my playstile and taste; others would rather the raw pewpew power of Pano, the greeks theme of Aleph or all the high tech stuff of CA.
     
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  12. Ba5terD

    Ba5terD Member

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    To be honest, I went with Nomads, too for the beginning. As I like their hacking and dirty tricks gamestyle very much, and the models 100% fit my expectations.

    Gonna come back to the Combined Army anyway, because they're just very cool :)

    But I guess I will have to gain some experience first, before leaning into them :)
     
  13. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    To be honest Nomads are a great way to start Infinity.
     
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  14. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    Didn't even know this profile existed until you said something. Wow. I like it a lot. Murder Monkeys look a lot better than they did early N3.
     
    #34 -Ghost-, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
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  15. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Just remember that the preta is also extremley impetuous and will use his climbing plus to leave the oznats ZoC and/or kill himself while trying to climb over objects.

    Sensor with smoke in itself is dope tho.
     
  16. -Ghost-

    -Ghost- Shalashaska

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    You can kind of plan for that if you deploy second, but I see what you're saying.