Gators

sure you not talking about the state of ariadna sectorials? lol

on paper i fits the punchy nature of CJC other sectorials could use it more when you got mc'murder, destroyer of worlds among all the other above mentioned things

just curious which was the last nomad sectorial to get a major raveneye update?

 

I think this about sums it up honestly.

I don't actually mind the idea that maybe some vanilla main battle TAGs resist hacking, or some resist CC or whatever. But slapping them both, along with mines and NCO of all things on the same TAG seems really egregious.

 

Ohh it's egregious but not 4 orders, Strategos, WIP 17, Mim (-6), Immunity: (Possession), BS15 egregious.

 

I agree that TJC probably does have a better set of profiles across the board than BJC, especially considering that a good percentage of BJC is garbage. However, I always find that TJC list building is really hard and it's always a problem trying to fit in all the things you want. BJC on the other hand is a sectorial where enough is good that you can still fit in everything you want and still have some options to upgrade units, etc.

 

Avatar is pretty bullshit, but it does pay for that. The Gator is a vanilla TAG that then buys the optimal, low price kit that really pushes its effectiveness up. I'd say its better optimized than the Avatar is honestly.

 

Yes the Gator is probably more optimized than the Avatar. Then again, the Gator is not likely to be able to dominate a board either.

 

I feel the same way. Amazing models and profiles, but I can hardly take any of them. If you want to incorporate a rear fire base with flanking units, midfielders, and a drop troop it’s mostly LI. Go heavy on toys you get a rear fire base with some side support.

 

The Ultimate Death Machine of the invading alien horde should be formidable for narrative reasons, and given the cost it is pretty balanced in play.

Gator will achieve almost as much concentration of force and resilience with a much lower pricetag (and better support thanks to that).

 

For sure. Not only does the Avatar pay for it but its in an army with no cheap troops. If it wants cheap orders it has to load up on low quality units that are very easy to eliminate. Plus, being a vanilla only unit, it can't get support from Fireteams. The gator has neither of those problems, and costs 42 points less.

 

From my experience not having mimetism 6 means significantly lower resilience. It translates to force too, as targets that you shoot will be significantly more likely to beat more of your rolls in FtF, thus surviving longer and draining more orders.

I wouldn't call Ikadrons or Daturazi low quality or easy to eliminate. Imetrons yes, but I wouldn't call access to Imetrons a disavdantage for TAG list.

Don't get me wrong. Gator does seem like it gets some stuff for free, but seeing one on the other side of the battlefield wouldn't affect my whole battleplan nearly as much as an Avatar.

 

I didn't say Daturazi were low quality. I said that CA doesn't have access to cheap troops (Datarzi aren't cheap), and if it wants cheap troops it has to rely on low quality units. Perhaps instead I should have said CA has to rely on unconventional and limited sources like drones and Imetrons. These are units that often have no or limited defensive capabilities and are very easy to eliminate of not well protected. And an Avatar list doesn't have many spare orders or points to spend on good protection.

 

14 Daturazi is quite cheap considering it doubles up as a fairly solid defense, attack and utility, and neither ikadrons nor imetrons are low quality (for their cost).
2 imetrons, 2 ikadrons and 2 daturazi is 6 orders for 54 points full of utility and danger.
As for further defending Avatar CA has some outstanding profiles like mimetic TR drone or noctificer ML, for bargain prices.
There was a time when CA struggled with cheap orders, but that was somewhere in N2, before Ikadrons appeared, before imetrons stopped scattering, and before impetous move on daturazis became optional; when you did have to take overpriced vanguards or johnny-come-lately seedsoldiers.
Again I'm not defending Gator as such, it's just I think that "CA's weakness are cheap troops/orders" has not been a statement reflecting reality for quite some time.

 

The very fact Gator is being compared to a friggin Avatar at 42 points less says enough about its balance

 

I'd agree that this is no longer much of a weakness. Except when you're spending almost 120 points on a single model. I mean, theres a reason why the standard strategy for dealing with the Avtar is quickly killing off those exact 6 models you mentioned. Not only is it a weakness, its a famous and well known one. Its a meme.

 

Which is a really weird comparison to make btw, as they are very different things, that have very different abilities. Especially if you have an extremely similar TAG to Gator sitting right next to Avatar: Raicho.
And to be honest Gator does look rather favourably in this comparison (though it depends how much Oblivion and crit immunity are useful on a TAG, I have little experience in this regard). But as I am saying for the third time, my point is not that Gator isn't very optimised. It is, it compares (favourably?) to Raicho which is a very solid TAG itself. My point... I guess my point is that comparing it to Avatar is silly. Raicho with CC ability is still nowhere close nor similar to Avatar.

It is not because these models are especially easy to kill (apart from Imetrons they are not) it is because Avatar is much harder to kill than any other TAG (save maybe marker state ones), so not fighting against it if possible is the optimum option.
I feel silly even saying this, but can we agree that Avatar is much harder to kill than Gator?

 

Avatar supremacy is situational, it has a lot harder time in Ariadna, than in a force with cubes, likewise a force with sufficient MSV treats Avatar problems easier than those that are not.

But indeed an Avatar force is hardly starved of cheap orders, at just over half the 300 points (154) an Avatar can have 10 orders at its disposal.

 

Depends on your faction- Oniwabans and Speculo Killers like Avatars, whereas a Gator is a frustrating obstacle in a backline already stuffed with cheap, template-carrying, CC-capable Order generators. The Spotlight to GML combo is also going to be just as capable, since despite the extra difficulty of defeating its WIP17 the reward is worth the extra orders. It's shooting factions that will prefer fighting Gators over the Avatar, since they will have to actually chip through its plentiful ARM and STR as well as its Mimetism whereas the Gator is just a normal MBT-style TAG when faced in this manner. That said, the Gator will be far better-supported than an Avatar due to its insultingly low cost and efficient in-faction board control.

 

The Avatar will die easier from specialized troops to deal with him either great CC troops (preferably without cube) or MSV troops with sufficient firepower, Gator will die easier from conventional firepower units.