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Future of Imperial Service

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I talked to Carlos yesterday at adepticon and he said they were making changes all the time. They had to do the Haqq video 3 times! The Zhencha in Dahshat was a last min thing too.
     
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Please tell me you asked him why the Guijia is such a shitcan and is like one of the only MBTs to not get a fix.
     
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  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I would be totally fine paying .5 SWC for a basic Pheasant and not a Red Fury.
     
  4. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Not yet! lol He had to do something before I could finish talking with him.
     
  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Well, if you get the chance let us know his excuse.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Personally I'd be willing to label the 1.5 SWC gate tax on the Pheasant+Bao Haris an "interesting choice", but unlike other interesting choices (most recently 1.5 SWC on Speculo Minelayer), this one doesn't have much in the way of power on the other side of said gate.

    Basically, be willing to drop CoC on most Pheasant profiles and try to make those profiles stand on their own and move the KHD to Bao, it suits them much more. Also drop those LSGs... seriously...
    It wouldn't move mountains, I'm estimating that a reasonable attack team that doesn't contain any MSnipers would be reduced in price by about 7 points 86->79 and would trade CoC for a good KHD (and KHD suits Bao like a glove)
    And then make Pheasant Wildcards. There's no over-the-top profiles and they have decent utility for them to be occasionally welcomed in other fireteams. It's also the only unit in ISS I am aware of that's described as universally cooperative and sufficiently authoritative with other law enforcement forces so wildcard status would fit them.

    I think that without completely restructuring the sectorial, Bao and Pheasant are the only place in ISS that needs focused love. It's probably also the only place in ISS that can take any sort of love without severely nudging the sectorial's external balance upwards (which would be bad)
     
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  7. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    I think that with KHD and CoC pheasnt, we finially got a model worth to pick from himself insted as a expensive tax to pick Sun Tze or the Hsien/crane tax.
     
  8. Achelon

    Achelon Active Member

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    So...no one talking about the big buff to Sun Tze?
    How he is probably the best lieutenant in the game atm?

    Thanks to the new Total Immunity he has 3 wounds, ARM6 (9 in conver) and ignores absolutely every ammo type, immune to stun, immune to flash, WIP 17, Strategos Level 3...
     
  9. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    Go to 'Yu Jing'.
     
  10. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    He's still very situational. 65 points isn't something you just have lying around, and he dis become slightly more vulnerable to a limited subsection of hacks.
    I think in terms of "great LT options" I'd rate him now as on the same level as a Celestial Guard or Ghulam, but for different reasons. CG/Ghulam have good WIP and can easily be hidden among several other potential LTs without messing up your cost:order ratio too much - but there's still going to be probably better LT options out there.

    Remember that with both versions of Sun you're paying for a significant amount of combat stats (either BS or ARM and a Multi weapon) while also dumping insane amount of points in WIP which you'll not use all that often.
    Boiling it down: Sun is a bad HI that provides his combat group with NCO. Unless you actually make extensive use of Total Immunity AND Strategos*, then he'll be outmatched by 5 CG.

    * Decapitation in general, counter-deploying Pheasant/Lunah snipers, preventing Speculo shenanigans, and actually using hin to assault enemy positions. Nox aren't quite as terrifying for him, for example.
     
  11. Achelon

    Achelon Active Member

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    Vulnerable to hacks? With WIP 17 Resets? BTS 6? That considering that is quite easy to just use Fairy Dust for that extra -3 to hacking him.
    Dunno, but I see him everything but vulnerable to hacks xD
     
  12. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Sun Tzu has actually become a must-take vs. Shas for me now. I've not fielded him in over 4 years I think, but now vs. Shas or HB I'm definitely going to do so. Now that he's immune to insta-gibbing, his bodyguards or template weapon can do for the attacker pretty certainly.

    For tourney lists, he'll probably go into whatever highly infiltrating vanilla lists I build, to keep other infiltrator spam easier to deal with. Same list would probably get lots of Sensor action.

    Problem with hacking is it's a low-risk tactic that they can use repeatedly without the directly-affected model (Sun Tzu in this case) being able to shut down the repeater lest he lose his Reset. Non-hackable escorts (or a KHD) are useful to take those out just like infantry support armor in real life. In the infiltrator-heavy list above for example that would be a Guilang FO or Ninja KHD kept handy nearby.
     
  13. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    I wouldn't call him THE best Lieutenant personally, but he certainly is up there ( Albeit I view the Sniper and Hacker Daoying Lieutenants as FAR superior options. ).

    I mean, his new ''big buff'' only brought him from being exceedingly durable to being ludicrously durable. Which just means we get to save points on taking a safety CoC ( One I wasn't ever taking anyways, since the bastard, even if so obvious to spot as the Lieutenant, wasn't scared of most stuff anyways. ).

    Realistically, nobody uses the guy in any real offensive capacity, where Total Immunity would be most beneficial. You don't take him as a ''durable fighter.'' Yu Jing has a metric ton of such units, often for cheaper costs too. Want a durable gunfighter of a brick? Mowang. Want a fast and durable nightmare? Su-Jian. Need to stack some sick MODs? Daofei and Hac Tao. Sun is often taken for his Level 3 Strategos, WIP17 Lieutenant roll and Advanced Command skills in addition to being a living brick wall of an ARO corner guard piece, and definetely not because he's a very durable 60/65 point BS12 BSG/MULTI-Rifle.

    I'd say he's about as great a Lieutenant as he was before this change to Total Immunity ( I almost exclusively run SCG lists, soooooo... ), but considering we got the amazing Daoying Lieutenants back before December... he has stiff competition in faction.
     
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  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    "became more vulnerable", as in comparison to before.

    With HI it's not so much about being able to avoid the hack, because in many situations where you are exposed to hacks you aren't able to retaliate and nearly any other unit would not be able to significantly interact with you. It's a very strong drawback. So even if Sun1 is effectively imposing -3 and effectively has 9 BTS versus hacking attempts, the likes of a Yadu or a Veteran Kazak wouldn't have to Reset at all. And just to put numbers on it, a Deva Functionary with an AHD for +5/0.5 has:
    * 100% chance of forcing Sun1 (or any other non-Stealth HI) to waste 1 Short Skill while touching the ZoC
    * 12.5% chance of Isolating Sun1.
    This increases to 24.5% chance of Isolating Sun1 if there's a Repeater or Hacker covering the position where the HI (i.e. Sun1 in this case) needs to attack something or do a skill that's not Reset.

    Luckily, for Sun a Monofilament Mines is mostly any annoying wet fart (i.e. slightly more dangerous than a Louie dropping on him (because the Louie has to roll a "hit" that the mine does not))
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Increase Sun2's BTS to 6 and I'd consider it. 52 points for a Super-Yadu. Still very expensive and probably would still need at least linkability in ISS to be really worth while as non-LT.

    And move Strategos to the LT profile for a 48 points Super-Yadu.
     
  16. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Wow I... legitimately forgot Sun2 even existed... again.
    Am I the only one who keeps forgetting we have a Medium Infantry unit besides the Daoying or Tiger...?
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Armand is in 80% of my vanilla lists. Tigers only marginally more often than Sun2...
     
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  18. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Aye, Minelayer Armand is actually a quite a stable workhorse in my Vanilla lists. Especially on active turns.
     
  19. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Marksman Sun was a butt of too many locals' jokes about CB's unit design for me to forget about him.
    Also he's one of like two units in the game responsible for MML1 + BTS-based weapons FAQ, so there's that. Definitely helps with remembering him.
     
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  20. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    Sunny T has always been an amazing Lt., and an even better DataTracker in most missions. Now he is even better at those roles, but you won't take him for something else. He is worth the points, IMO, but you take advantage of him when playing missions that require you to put your DataTracker on a zone and have him sit there forever. He is an immovable object.