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Future of Imperial Service

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Space Ranger, Mar 1, 2019.

  1. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    So in the future of the future ISS… um yes so what would you like to see as changes made the ISS? I have a few things that I’d like to see but what would you guys like too?

    My thoughts
    1. Make Zhanying wildcard troops. Seems like they are already like that but it would be cool if they could also join Celestial Guard, Bao, etc.
    2. Allow Zhanying to form their own core fireteam. I just want more reasons to use these guys. I like figs and the rules are okay.
    3. Along the same lines, make the Pheasant Rank into a wildcard.
    4. Give Bounty Hunters Adhesive Launcher option. It just makes sense. Some say they just take a cube but what if the are Haqq, Ariadnan, or even a Nomad? Sometimes the just need to capture someone.
    5. Add a specialist to Bounty Hunters. I think they should have a hacker because what if they need to hunt down a hacker? Or how about a Nullifier?
    6. Give Bao a specialist and more weapons. Preferably Spitfire and/or Red Fury.
    7. I’d love a TAG but I doubt we’d get that. Su-Jian come close I guess.
    8. Give Sun Tzu a BS13 for the HI version! It just seems stupid he’s BS12.
    9. Change the Sun Tzu Marksman in some way to make him worth taking. Marksmanship Level X, or Mimetisim.
    10. This will sound crazy but how about allow Sun Tzu to haris with up to 2 Hsien, or 2 Crane Rank. Crazy but fun
    11. Add some sort of basic Doctor and/or Engineer. Sophotech isn’t bad but talk about all in one basket!
     
  2. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    ISS is already super bloated, I'd love for it to be slimmed down TBH. Remove irregular Sforza, Remove Ashcroft Hunting Party, remove Dakini, to start. CSU could probably go too. ISS is also already really strong, so remember any time you improve a unit no one takes right now, you're buffing ISS.

    That said, I think Bao should get a mixed link with CG, but part of the Bao's problem is that a bunch of those profiles just aren't going to see table. The only Bao I consider fielding right now is the MSV2 Bio2 BSG. I don't think they need specialists or anything, just letting one Bao hang out in that core is enough for me.

    Zhanying just need a flat rework. The only good profile is the utility one (Sensor, Nimbus, Madtraps). All of the other options are overshadowed in the army.

    BS12 Sun Tze doesn't really matter, he has Mimetism and a Boarding Shotgun, it's not like it will improve his gunfighting by much.
     
  3. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I can agree with you on Sforza. I'd hardly take the Irregular one since the new version.

    Also about the Bao. They don't really need specialist. But I'd like to see more weapons.

    True about Sun Tzu but it is some sort of OCD with me that HI troops like him have BS12 and even worse, the Marksman version is BS14.
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Adding Bao and pheasants to a CG link would be neat.

    Drop Kuang Shi to AVA 4 too! :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:
     
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  5. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    ISS on death watch with this change
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I literally just had duo's enabled for my CSU's. I'd stab someone if they did that.
     
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  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    • Remove Ashcroft and Ashcroft Hunting Party
    • Remove CSU
    • Remove Aleph units
    • Change Celestial Guard by +1 BS, +1 ARM for price increase of +2 (ish). AVA 4
      • You may recognise these stats from Xi
      • Kuang Shi Control Device profile removed
      • Light Grenade Launcher (Normal and Smoke) +1 pts
      • Add Haris, Doctor, Engineer profiles
    • Change Kuang Shi to AVA 2 "Kuang Shi Patrol Detail"
      • Controlling Celestial Guard and 0 to 4 Kuang Shi
      • Kuang Shi are "Regular", Ghost: Synchronized and 4 points each
      • Detonate Kuang Shi as well as Biolocator can be activated by individual model
      • Biolocator triggers on Celestial Guard null state
    • Add "Law Enforcement Task Force", stats same as Zhanshi and AVA T
      • Standard weapon is SMG for 6 points
      • SMG Paramedic (8 pts), Marksman Rifle (13 pts), Boarding Shotgun + D-Charges (11 pts), SMG + Deactivator (3 ARM/BTS, Bioimmunity) (12 pts)
      • Fireteam: Core, up to 1 Zhanying
    • Change Bao from Courage to Religious, add X-visor to all profiles, remove Light Shotguns, shift 1 WIP to eq. of PH
      • Prices should be 21 to 24 points, with MSniper at 30
      • Add Haris to BioV+MSV2 profile
      • Fireteam Core, May only form Fireteams if Fireteam contains a Wildcard Trooper
    • Change Pheasant by removing Chain of Command from all profiles except the Boarding Shotgun profile
    • Increase Ninja AVA to 2
    • Wildcards: Pheasant, Crane, Sun Tze V2.
     
  8. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
    Warcor

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    Did you read the zhanying lore? they're low class agents despised by the elite. I'm still confused about why Hsiens tag up with this lowclass scum.

    I don't see too much of a benefit from making a core of zanying they already have 6th sense by default. Pano players are still complaining about the bolt core for being too expensive and squishy... well they're at least cheaper and veterans (un-isolable and a good cheearleader in LI that provides regular orders even during Loss of Lieutenant)

    But aside that... I see no problems on that core

    hmm similar reasons as with the zhanying. I can see them on crane/CG linkteams but definitely not inside wumings, nor zhanyins.

    What the pheasant needs is to reduce its MA to 1 and a slight boost to PH12 in exchange (to use grenades and dodge with competece)
    Maybe even change it's regular hacking device to assault or even killer hacker (there is competence with the zhanying in that rangeband)

    Not bad sugestions , They can actually take ADHL with booty but it's not the same. The specialist one seems a bit strange by lore... but I suppose a killer hacker can fit the job.

    but what we need there is a hunting party Haris and hunting party without miranda

    They already have access to specialists and mid range weapons via Pheasant. But I can see room for another weapon there, mainly because of the weird haris toll of the haris option. What they really need are a bao haris, D-charges, stun grenade launchers (to make swat-like assaults) and things to take out mines and preimetrals at less risk. Without them, they seem too frail in the mid table.

    Maybe I can see space for some X-visor+MSV SMG profile. but that would be asking too much?

    Bostria just confirmed in one of the last videos, that in gutier's words, the su-jian is all the heavyweight the ISS is gonna take

    Yep, BS 12 is kind of lame for a HI

    Hmm... I don't see the mimetism happening, seems to be a key differentiator between the 2 options.
    • maybe reducing the multi rifle to AP rifle to improve the performance of marksmanship1 at a cost reduction of 6 points
    • maybe changing Marksmanship 1 for Marksmanship X (multi rifle DA mode could be a thing inside saturation zones)
    • maybe changing Marksmanship 1 for some level of fatality (even the level 2, not too OP on a B 2-3 trooper)
    • Maybe retaking the xvisor of previous edition on the multi rifle...
    • Maybe taking a friggin multi marksman rifle (it has the marksman name in it for FS!)
    • but what I think i miss the most is some mobility. 4-4 move, Climbing+, super jump
    Regarding the linkteam... it could be interesting to see the Multirifle marksman version on any light fireteam like a bao haris, a zhanyin haris etc...


    Not happening... it's a police force after all. let the machines deactivate bombs and do the handy work


    too in-depth changes. I'm not seeing them come to reality... maybe the CoC removal from pheasants
     
    #8 Mc_Clane, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    emperor26 likes this.
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    NO. YOU LEAVE MY ICESTORM CSU THE HELL ALONE.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Giving AVA total 6 point regular orders that aren't impetuous to ISS doesn't seem like it would be a great idea. At least Kuang Shi can potentially hurt themselves unless you sacrifice your FT:Core for them
     
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  11. Weathercock

    Weathercock Well-Known Member

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    ISS is already as potent and variable as a good sectorial should be, it does not need significant reworking. The only adjustment it really needs is for Bao Troopers and the Pheasant agent to not suck.
     
  12. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    I'm curious to know where this interpretation comes from. Yes, Zhanying are the bottom of the totem poll in the Imperial Service but they is never any talk (in the fluff) about them being despised by the other ranks. Zhanying are agents that got to the Imperial Service the hard way without ass kissing, having the correct last name, or having mommy/daddy in the Party. Also, do to their lack of connections and influence being a Zhanying is about as good as it's going to get.

    What is a Zhanying really? They are the hard boiled detectives who got their by merit. do fantastic work, but will never climb the ranks. They are the Harry Bosch's and Bulitt's of the Imperial Service. Not what I would call scum.

    So a Hsien bring along some Zhanying is hardly a shock. They're agents of the Imperial Service, not some peasants to be sneered at.

    On the topic of the IS getting any form of an update... not in the immediate future nor does it need a comprehensive one. It is already one of the strongest sectorials. The only standout units that need something done with them, and I agree with Weather, is the Pheasant (you'd think they'd have gotten them right since their awful N2 profile) and the Bao.
     
    Space Ranger likes this.
  13. Mc_Clane

    Mc_Clane Zhànzhēng bùzhǎng
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    If there's some low level agent to make muscle for enforce a team, that's the CG (the lowest grade inside ISS) or the Bao (AKA agents leopard, that work as a special intervention team). Although none of them have, properly speaking, rank as agents or authority as such (in other words they don't have rank as officers).

    Zhanyings are the 4th rank and the las one. They're "undisciplined" and work on the fringe of the law, with brute force and unorthodox methods. That's the first reason they don't mix with other agents.

    The second reason is the prejudices the "upper class" have about them. pheasants (3st rank), cranes (2nd rank) and Hsien (1st rank) in that specific order. And that's the main reason they don't keep climbing down the ladder, not exactly the but licking. The upper classes don't want them sharing power as equals, not because they're brute or filthy, just because they're an inferior class without blue blood. Even if they lick asses pretty good they're still lowborn. the superior ranks can accept them as tools due to their good results but they don't mix along. Or at least that's my read about them.

    Another reason why the ISS is rotten and corrupt. I hope on future events for another coup to change the current emperor and the new one reforms the current imperial service system for good
     
    #13 Mc_Clane, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Better analogy: the Zhanying are the Judge Dee of the setting (if they were better connected, they'd at least be Pheasants).

    The update I want is fluff, not mechanics. The Uprising has shown that the reigning Emperor has lost the Mandate of Heaven (the Uprising wouldn't have been successful if he hadn't). New Imperial Election, massive purge of anyone involved in the atrocities following the election, heads mounted on pikes, Cubes destroyed, etc. This allows YJ to regain some face internationally.
     
  15. Solodice

    Solodice Freshly Squeezed Troll

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    Yeah, that doesn't really jive with what the Zhanying are. They are not undisciplined as they Zhanying come from the ranks of the Judicial Police and aren't your average street joe getting his badge for the first time. They are already experienced officers. So I don't get where undisciplined comes from. Works on the fringes of the law and use unorthodox methods... you just described all Imperial agents not just the Zhanying.

    Sounds like your projecting classicist ideas on the rank structure of the Imperial Service. It really has nothing to do with being "lowborn" or of true blood. It's about knowing the correct people, using your influence with them, merit, and the drive to move up the ladder. Jjust like any structured organization from the likes of the FSB to Microsoft. A Zhanying did none of this to get where they are and do to that they've pretty much capped out on moving up further unless something drastic changes. So, yeah, our ideas of what the Zhanying are and why there are in their position are very different.
     
  16. Ariwch

    Ariwch The denizen of the StateEmpire salt mine

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  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    It is a necessary consequence of some of the other changes. However, do note that this is the first 6-point model without a chain rifle, so unlike a Kuang Shi or a Volunteer (who also get a Light Shotgun!), they will not be at all as potent at guarding your DZ from skirmishers.
    It's not really all that indepth.
    There's two core ideas there: remove the mercenary bloat and stop having the Kuang Shi call the fucking shots! The mercenaries are a solution to a problem entirely engineered from unnecessary sets of limitations imposed on Yu Jing in general, not entirely unlikely due to JSA bloating up the Light Infantry space inside vanilla. With Keisotsu and Tokusetsu gone, and partially Raiden as well, there's now design space within vanilla.
    And then the Kuang Shi; Kuang Shi are zombies that literally nobody trusts and everyone wishes they'd just go die on an enemy, they should not be generating orders. HVT:s should be generating regular orders before a Kuang Shi. A god damned turd in the corner of a building should be generating regular orders before a Kuang Shi. Them being regular is the least consistent unit in the setting, even less consistent than highly trained and disciplined Shaolin Monks being Extreme Impetuous.
    No.
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    For real, I'd fly to Spain and beat the crap outta someone if they did that.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    If I were Interruptor faced with a fuming angry fan who travelled to Spain after having redesigned ISS like that I'd go "fine, I'll just remove ABH instead".
    I think CSU deserves a proper representation, though.
     
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Well he wouldn't have to worry about facing a fuming angry fan after that, one of us would be dead.