Run Limited Insertion if it works for you. In my mind, one of the best things about the Tikbalang is that you can run ~15 orders so easily with it. You can still run one of the best TAGs in the game, but include plenty of other choices, as well as the Orders to run them. In defense of the Regular FO too... Sometimes you have .5 SWC left, and the FO is generally a more useful upgrade for a linetrooper than the Paramedic. I don't start my lists with a Regular FO, but I do end with them when I have the SWC to spare. I'd certainly try to find the points for a Minelayer+Sensor first though.
Trying to keep Dart and the Tik (maybe Scylla) what would you run @barakiel? Follow up question does anyone run Guarda de Assualto
I have a hard time justifying Scylla when I have access to a Naga khd. Her flamethrowers are awesome. With the tik having a flamethrower and the number of minesand minelayers that acon can being, I don’t feel a lack of template weapons, however. I do feel that camo state is a waaaay between defense than having two flamethrower bots in tow.
@yoink101 MOV: 4-4 CC:17 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:13 ARM:2 BTS:3 W:1 2 SCYLLA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device UPGRADE: Maestro) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser + 2 Devabots Charybdis / Pistol, E/M CC Weapon. (0.5 | 34) DEVABOT CHARYBDIS Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (7) MOV: 4-4 CC:13 BS:12 PH:12 WIP:14 ARM:1 BTS:0 W:1 NAGA Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 30) I Don't Know... + 4 to CC/ -1 from WIP/ +1 ARM / +3 BTS Lose Camo/Infiltration/Dogged/Mines /1 Point of WIP But you Gain Gain Nanopulser/ 2 Repeater Devabots w/2 Heavy flamethrowers / E/M CC Weapon/ Maestro... for 4 more points... 2 more models 3 templates a turn and 24" of repeater coverage with the Hacker killing Maestro thats a whole lotta coverage for loss of Camo and Infiltration and 1 point of WIP Not to mention a defensive activation of Cybermask I think Scylla might be a little better for the role of protecting the Tikbalang than the Naga... especially considering the Tikbalang isn't rushing up... Thoughts?
Scylla is a hunter killer, her secondary role is defensive and tertiary as a specialist. Naga is firstly a specialist, secondary role is defensive both through hacking (which you should be running 3x Fugazi to fuel) and mines, tertiary role is a killer. The problem with Scylla is she's order hungry, especially in LI where you have two other attack pieces, someone is going to be order starved (not so much of a problem when you're packing 16 orders, even losing 2 going first).
Real question Scylla being order hungry has more to do with her not being far up in the Midfield and having to spend extra to get her in place or to move her to a new place because even the best laid plans will have to change during the battle according to your opponent's moves?
Yes, but you have to count the order(s) for cybermask as well. Depends on the other army, but I would try to use my bulleteer or peacemaker for the first attack run and use Scylla for DZ defense.
I wouldn't use her as an attack piece unless an solid opportunity presented itself maybe to grab an objective as I move her up or so hold the line around an area I plan on pushing the Tik to.. I still need to play it I need to play it so I can see how it feels... I'll have the models from Shae soon... I get tired of running proxies
Scylla's big advantage in LI is she and her bot(s) can cover a lot of ground, threatening both hacking and conventional death (she's both offensive and defensive). Your first attack run won't usually hurt too much, but once you find she has to redeploy across the table, her 4" move compared with the Bots quickly starts to eat into your orders. As @Ben Kenobi pointed out as well, you have to save an order for Cybermask (which can fail, unlike Camo) 'cus she's actually quite squishy. I've used her to just roll up my opponent, charging up one flank under cybermask then burning off his cheerleaders, then retreating to Imp-2 state in reactive (while being guarded by a sniper). But I've also seen her drop to a single lucky crit, and being halfway across the table I could do nothing to bring her back (and her 2 bots stood immobile for the rest of the game).
Camo is arguably the best skill in the game. Having that and mines is amazing for defending the tik. Scylla is cool, but she has to make a wip roll to get into her token state. With a limited order pool, it’s not a risk you should take.
I could see that style of play too, Run n Burn, fall back and hold down a flank... Go into IMP2 and wait it out... Crits happen. Best part of this game is that everything can die to anything... I just don't see the Naga as solid of a Defender as Scylla This is why... I make a plan, plan X. I put my Naga in Area X let's say part of that plan is holding my Tik in reserve... I can still only place him in my DZ. My Naga is far from my DZ can't lay a mine with it unless I spend in order... and reveal him While he does have WIP 14 he doesn't have Maestro to cut that hackers head off. Now let's say somebody Drops something Ugly next to my Tik my Naga is half way up the board... Versus running Scylla and the Tik together like a special unit... also don't think Camo is as awesome as everybody thinks. (Boos n hisses) MSV is everywhere. You have to spend in order still to put somebody back in Camo State. Now it is instantaneous I grant that, as long as nobody can see you I believe.. But what if you got MSV level one looking for you...it's over. Cyber mask you need biometric visor to see. Yes you could fail an order or even 2 orders trying to apply it you're still spending an order to go into Camo. Cyber mask as a risk reward system where you are going to have to take that role but MSV isn't going to allow your enemy to see that model. That whole unit becomes invisible basically. The whole unit becomes a bigger threat than a Camo unit once it's an impersonation state. I think the threat of all the templates and flamers and Maestro holding down one flank with a Tik is way more significant of a threat than a single Naga halfway up the board and a Tik hoping nothing pops up on them. Like a Drop AHD, Hidden TO Monster or a plethora of other goodies that can arise.. But for me this is all Theory you know it's not something that I've actually done. I played the Naga n Tik with a proxy Army using my brothers Nomads. But I didn't use the Naga as a protective piece and he actually just got killed pretty fast. I'm not a veteran player like you guys. I only have maybe 25-30 games under my belt total and those have been with Hassassins, Shasvastii and 2 all proxied Shock Army... I do have to try both though because I really want to find out what's better what I really want to do is find out what's the absolute best way to protect the Tikbalang... if there's a better way than either one of those units I'm in let me know... Thanks for all the help and input guys I know isn't really on Topic... S.S.L.
Cybermask can be discovered by anyone. Very few msv models are fast, forward deployed platforms. With the increase in sensor, camo is a little more vulnerable, but it still takes an order to discover. If you’re deploying your naga to protect your Tik, it shouldn’t be at the midline, unless you’re planning to keep the tik there. Also, with your ava 3 fugazi, which you should always take outside of limited insertion, your repeater network will cover your tik, which is better than having the naga there because any assault hackers will take an additional -3 to hack the naga back. With redrum, thats -6. Plus, they have to discover the naga before it can even be hacked. Even if you get second activation. On the active turn, the naga can achieve -9 by adding surprise shot to the mix. Scylla has to succeed at a wip13 roll to get into a token state. Also, the naga is dogged, which is a huge pain in the ass. Scylla has some useful tools, but she is more vulnerable than a Naga. Give her a shot though. If you like her, great.
Well, first off, I'd never run SAA as LI, I like 3x Fugazi and a Pathfinder in a second group. This allows me to place a hacker anywhere and cover a huge swath of the board, so my Naga KHD can be prone inside a building on the far left side of the board and my Tikbalang on the right flank is defended just because I deployed a Fugazi next to it. Also, Redrum is as good as or better than Maestro in virtually every situation. Furthermore, mines defend an area even after your trooper has moved away. Place a couple as you're moving into position (especially against a link you're not getting surprise shot anyway so it's no big loss) and even if you lose the Naga, you've left a couple of speed-bumps that your opponent has to deal with or avoid. Don't get me wrong, a pair of HFT deployed 17" apart with a BSG toting hacker in the middle is brutal, and I regularly bring Scylla or Drakios along (nothing like walking a HFT bot right up to a camo marker that can't react 'cus Intruders can't see albedo).
