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Forming Fireteams: a Summary

Discussion in 'Rules' started by ijw, Mar 26, 2018.

  1. Ceilican

    Ceilican Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. Now here’s another one warping my mind.

    Can an odalisque:haris form A haris fireteam with troops that otherwise couldn’t form a haris? For example, two janissaries + one odalisque:haris.

    This wildcard thing is really throwing me.
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    No

    You can't form a Janissary Haris (it's not an option in the Sectorial chart) and they can't be part of any other type of Fireteam that does have access to Haris.

    To put it another way, you need to Specify what type of Fireteam you are forming, not just who is joining. A Janissary Haris isn't a legal option, and an Odalisque Haris could not include Janissaries.
     
  3. Ceilican

    Ceilican Well-Known Member

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    Ok, this may have been the missing piece for me. So, extrapolating from this, a khawarij: haris cannot form a haris with ghulam because a ghulam haris is not an option, correct?

    The decision tree goes something like this:

    Declare fireteam type (core, haris)
    Can members be part of this type of fireteam? (Check sectoral chart)
    Does at least one fireteam member have the appropriate skill?
    If yes to both, fireteam is created.
     
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  4. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    More or less Correct, appropriate skill applies to any fireteam except core.
     
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  5. whiskeytango

    whiskeytango New Member

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    I'm sure its answered somewhere, but i just can't go through 11 pages. Can Spec Ops join fireteams?
     
  6. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Yes. They are the same as whatever their base profile is for the purpose of joining Fireteams.
     
  7. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    1) Right
    2) no, there is:

    -> To compose a Fireteam: Core, the minimum trooper number Requirement is two, and the maximum is five.(http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Core)
    -> ABH and all other wildcards are not listed as Fireteam: core in the List of Fireteams in wiki (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams)
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You're reading a bit more into that than is written. By definition, Wildcard troopers can join any fireteams, so they will satisfy that particular requirement, especially since the line you quote doesn't specify which troopers count for those 2 to 5 members.

    So a Zuyong Fireteam in Dahshat needn't contain any baseline Zuyong. It can contain only Wildcards.
     
  9. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    Wildcards can not "join" any fireteams - they can be "part" of any Fireteams. So you have to fulfill the requirements first. Wildcards are not ruled in the wiki - the only "rules" for wildcards is the text found f.e. in army or the wiki List of fireteams.

    -> Special Fireteam. Wildcard trooper: the Bounty Hunters can be part of any Fireteam of this Sectorial Army.


    Imho there is too much space for interpretion in this particular rule regarding Wildcards. Time for a FAQ? :)

    EDIT: I think we all agree on the way Haris with Wildcards are formed: You cannot form a Haris w/o a profile that has that ability.
    But forming a fireteam core w/o at least one member that has the ability to form a fireteam:core is legal? Then why is forming a Haris w/o the Haris profile illegal?
     
    #209 kesharq, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  10. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    As Mahtamori says, that's purely the number of Fireteam members. That bullet point says nothing about who the members are.

    Forming a Fireteam: Haris without a trooper that has the Fireteam: Haris Special Skill is illegal because the Haris rules say so (http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Haris):
    • At least one of the members of this Type of Fireteam must have the Fireteam: Haris Special Skill.
    The Fireteam: Core rules have no equivalent bullet point, because there is no Fireteam: Core Special Skill.
     
  11. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fireteam:_Core

    "Only those units specified on their Sectorial Army List can compose a Fireteam: Core."

    -> Wildcards in Dahshat are not specified in the List of fireteams as Fireteam: Core - so in my understanding you need at least 1 specified troop (Zuyong) to form a fireteam: core.
    I would say 2 Zuyong, because a single Zuyong is not able to form a fireteam: core. But this is my interpretion

    Imho there is too much space for interpretion in this particular rule regarding Wildcards. Time for a FAQ! :)
     
    #211 kesharq, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Notes on 'wildcard', 'counts as X unit' and 'can join/be part of X Fireteam' troopers added to the first post.
     
  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I think this is making things worse for me!

    Does a Wild card Join a Fireteam? or do they Replace one of the members? I need this simple!

    For example:
    In Dahshat, Special Fireteam: Duo. 1 Rafiq Remote FTO + 1 Maghariba Guard.

    Miranda Ashcroft (a Wildcard with Duo Skill) wouldn't be able to Join the team because it's a Duo and there's no room for her to Join.
    However, if the rule is Replace, She could Replace the Maghariba Guard to be with the Rafiq FTO, that also has the Duo skill.
     
  14. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    There's no real difference.

    You declare you're forming a Fireteam, then you declare the models that will join/compose/be part of that Fireteam.

    "I'm forming a Rafiq+Mags Special Duo, it will be joined by/formed by/contain this Rafiq and Miranda"

    "I'm forming a Fusilier Fireteam Core, it will be joined by/formed by/contain these 4 Kamau and Patsy"

    I've skipped nominating the leader in the examples above for conciseness, but the initial leader can be any model eligible to join/form/be part of the Fireteam in question.

    Note that there is no sequence to forming Fireteams, so there can't be a requirement that certain troopers are "already" in the team "before" you can add a Wildcard, because everyone joins at the same moment, there can't be an "already" or "before".
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    But there is a difference in the words. Join means "in addition to". Replace means "one is taken and another put in". A big enough difference to make it very confusing. "May be a part of" makes it worse. Does that mean Join? or Replace?

    And talking about "nominating" and "forming" on the table is NOT helping. I need to know when I make my list before I do any of that.
     
  16. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The Wildcard replaces one of the members who is not needed to define the Fireteam Type, meaning there has to be at leats one member with the Fireteam:[type used] that is not a wildcard.

    Depends, let's see a wildcard that does not have Fireteam Duo:
    Example 1:
    Dahshat Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    MAGHARIBA MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 78)
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()

    2 SWC | 95 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    This is, by RAW, a legal Duo composition: The Rafiq provides the Duo option, so the Authorized Bounty Hunter (or any wildcard) can replace *only the Maghariba*

    Another example:
    Dahshat Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2
    RAFIQ REMOTE FTO (Fireteam: Duo) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
    MAGHARIBA (Fireteam: Duo, 360º Visor) MULTI HMG, Heavy Flamethrower, Mine Dispenser / AP Heavy Pistol. (2 | 99)
    [​IMG] MAGHARIBA PILOT Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. ()

    2 SWC | 116 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Since both the Rafiq and the Maghariba have the Fireteam: Duo skill, An Authorized Bounty Hunter can Duo with this Maghariba, or with this Rafiq.

    Finally:
    Miranda Ashcroft has Fireteam: Duo, but the only Duo she can provide, RAW, her skill to is the Special Fireteam: Miranda Ashcroft + Authorized Bounty Hunter.
    She could not, for example, link with a 77pts Maghariba in a Duo, since there is no Miranda + Maggie link option, and Wildcards can substitute but not provide the Fireteam Skill.

    EDIT: Miranda can, for example, be the fifth member in a Zuyong Fireteam, instead of one Zuyong or the RuiShi
     
  17. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    All great, apart from this bit.

    Haris and Duo don't care who has the Skill, as long as at least one member has it.

    EDIT - which is why Patsy Garnett has the Duo and Haris Special Skills...
     
    #217 ijw, Apr 10, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
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  18. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    What happened to the rule: "If a unit has no standard Types of Fireteam listed, they can only create Fireteams that follow the notes for their Special Fireteams. For example when creating a Fireteam: Core of Magister Knights, the player must include 1-2 Knights Hospitaller or 1-2 Knights of Santiago." ( http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams ).

    Both Miranda and Rafiq have just "special fireteam: duo" - Miranda + ABH / Rafiq + Maggie. As the special Fireteam HAVE to be exactly like that, how will you include Miranda in a Rafiq+Maggie-Special-Duo?
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I've now replaced that with an up-to-date example. That one was from the previous version of Military Orders which didn't have any Wildcard troopers.
     
  20. kesharq

    kesharq Lucky Dice-Roller

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    ...and are listed in the Sectorial Chart (as mentioned in the first post). This seems to be the most important ruling regarding all fireteams.

    @xagroth
    please check the first post. There are the requirements to form the different fireteams. A fireteam: duo you need 2 things: a profile with "fireteam: duo" and the allowance of a fireteam: duo in the list of fireteams ( http://infinitythewiki.com/en/List_of_Fireteams ).

    According to your words, it is possible to for a WuMing Duo in Ikari with the WuMing (Duo)-Profile and any other WuMing profile. But, as the List of Fireteams does not list "Duo" for WuMing, it is not possible to form a legal Fireteam: Duo with 2 WuMing.