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Foreign Company Unit Discussion

Discussion in 'Foreign Company' started by Yasashii Fuyu, Mar 28, 2019.

  1. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    To be fair though, that's a problem of the kriza bring undercosted for what he does though. Arguably though, why is anyone taking on that kamau in a gunfight when you've got eclipse smoke in the faction? Stab the shooty guys and shoot the stabby guys is wargaming 101
     
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  2. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I think you're missing the point of white noise.

    Once it's up, that Kamau is no longer an issue this turn. Unless you shoot at it, it can't do much at you. So you're free to try and chase his link buddies and/or other models in the list that can cause you trouble. That's the good thing of having white noise.

    And I really don't get the hate for the iguana. Again, it is not a frontline fighter. We get linked ORCs and Krizas for that. But it is great at flanking and has the advantage that when it dies the operator can be flung 16 inches away in any direction, allowing you to reposition your HMG to continue the fight. It is a good model, it has it's perks. It's just not the same as the Kriza, and that's fine, we have a Kriza, we don't need two.
     
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  3. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You're the one arguing the Iguana should be using White Noise to shoot at MSV dudes, you tell me. My point was that he's not actually the exceptional gunfighter for his cost that you're making him out to be and that you can get better versions of Repeater, White Noise, HMG combinations it's hardly a unique trick only procured by using a shitty Iguana.



    Because when you cost 70+ points you go from being a flanking harassing model to "shit I need to do most of the work in this army right now or we're all gonna die." Same as when you spend 70pts on a Hac Tao or Swiss Guard you kinda need to strive to get your mileage out of them.

    I would also recommend against using the ejection system to try to reposition. It has a high chance to fail and fling your operator into the path of a ML or something. Just use the lower version of the rule if you're going to actually put it on the table.
     
    #43 Triumph, Apr 12, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  4. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    I strongly disagree with both assessments. You can afford to have a high cost model hang back and not put your whole strategy on top of it. If anything, being able to deal with high cost models using low cost ones is something rather common in this game, and holding back a high cost, high armor model to use as mop up is a valid strategy. Besides, you can fit in an iguana and a kriza on the same list:

    Foreign Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]10
    KRIZA BORAC Lieutenant HMG / Heavy Pistol, CC Weapon. (2 | 54)
    BOLT (Chain of Command) Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun, Drop Bears / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    ZERO Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 21)
    DAKTARI Combi Rifle / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 14)
    ZONDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    KAPLAN (Fireteam: Haris) Spitfire / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    LAXMEE Hacker (UPGRADE: Maestro) Submachine Gun + Pitcher, Cybermines, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 34)
    KAPLAN Engineer Combi Rifle, Adhesive Launcher, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    IGUANA HMG, Heavy Flamethrower / . (2 | 71)
    [​IMG] IGUANA OPERATOR HMG / Pistol, Knife. ()
    FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Gives you 3 attack vectors with high burst weapons and several repeaters to deliver the white noise if you need it. I can see the Iguana having its uses.
     
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  5. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Yeah sure, at the small cost of sacrificing your core link and having no ARO models outside of a Fugazi.

    I don't think this is worth an Iguana.
     
  6. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Look mate, if you're down on it, don't use it it's fine. All I'm saying is it is a useful piece. Msv units exist outside of kamau you know. Grenzers, grrls, briscards, mavericks etc etc etc.
    The repeater is the best bit of the tag. White noise and taking your KHD armed aros with you all over the board is priceless. Compared to other "light" tags it's a great utility piece and honestly, if it weren't for kriza, people would be up on it for being a good xenotech escort/datatracker/point man in ICS
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Sure they do, but they still don't out perform other units in the faction. That makes it bad, it's the same issue people are having with the Hulang in Dahshat, the model is utterly pointless when it's being forced to fight for a reason to be in the list against Saito and McMurrough who are very much "I do you job, but I do it better for less points, get back on the shelf where you belong".

    The Iguana has the exact same problem that when you allow a Kriza to be coupled with a strong repeater network the the model has absolutely no purpose.
     
  8. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    As long as missions that score with TAGs are present, there’s a purpose for it. And that’s one thing the Kriza can’t do better than Iggy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    That would be relevant if using a TAG to score in those missions was actually vital to winning them. It's not though, several factions can't even take a TAG and they don't feel handicapped that there are missions like these, they just focus on winning conventionally through force and using the other scoring conditions.

    Even if taking a TAG was vital the Iguana is literally one of the worst possible ones to use for it. Those missions demand for tough scoring pieces to weather enemy attacks potentially over multiple turns. Mr "Hey guys I'm big, fat, hard to hide and I'm missing a wound here!" is one of the worst options you could go with for it.
     
    #49 Triumph, Apr 15, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  10. DaRedOne

    DaRedOne Morat Warrior Philosopher
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    Once more I think you're missing the point here. You have plenty of other models to advance and kill stuff that would threathen the Iguana directly. You have plenty of support models for it too. These guys are not main attack pieces and the army gives you more attack options, some of them completely cheap and reliable (A chimera will fuck up any Tag it gets into CC with, and thanks to high move and Smoke it can reliably cross the map to get there, for example).

    If you want to use the Iguana as your army's linchpin, then it will underperform, I think everyone can agree with that. But it is a solid piece for holding a lane and it carries some nice support on that repeater and the flamer. It has its perks.
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It costs too many points to be the support. For the price range of an Iguana you can get this to hold a flank


    [​IMG]2
    ORC HMG / Pistol, Knife. (2 | 44)
    CROC MAN Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 29)

    2 SWC | 73 Points


    Or this

    [​IMG]3
    CROC MAN MULTI Sniper Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 38)
    ZERO (Minelayer) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 19)
    ZERO Boarding Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)

    2 SWC | 74 Points


    Or so many other far superior combinations of points and SWC. It's just too damn many points for something that isn't that good in a fight, doesn't link, and is difficult to protect because of its big silhouette and inability to prone and can't be stolen and used to shoot your shit up.

    You seem to think it's a simple measure to put it out on a flank to hold its own. You know what's gonna happen? Kiss your TAG goodbye. Having a repeater doesn't mean jack shit in terms of protecting your TAG from possession. Assuming your opponent isn't a retard and doesn't walk his AHD into your repeater you know what he does?

    He dumps a repeater on your TAG, plays Grand Theft TAG, and starts shooting up your dudes with your own model.

    Seriously 1 pitcher, deployable repeater, or hell something as simple as a remote moving up under smoke or something and you get to look like a numpty while your opponent runs off with your TAG.
     
  12. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    Blackout is a thing. Yeah it doesn’t work against pitchers or depreps, but a repeater REM moving within 8” of your Iggy generates an ARO for your hacker that can be used to Blackout, which disables their comms equipment (read: repeater).

    Still have a problem with Pitchers, and with getting possessed in your own active turn by a HD AHD.

    Also, from a man who plays lots of TAGs in a possession crazy meta, keep a helperbot B2B with your TAG. If your TAG gets possessed, it’s now engaged and can’t do anything. If it tries to leave, electric pulse it. And now you have an engineer helper already there to de-immobilize it on your next turn. Cancel POS with a command token, repair IMM-1 with engineer, good to go. Possession isn’t super scary if you are prepared.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You're not gonna have blackout. You're already paying points and SWC for an Iguana, your link teams, engineer support, KHD support. Defensive link, Kriza, and Iguana all already run you out maxed at 6 SWC let alone the points cost. Throwing more points after an Iguana is foolishness anyway.


    By this you mean you have an excuse for your opponent to template you and knock out your repair help at the same time, sure. Not to mention a huge order sink needing to chain the TAG to a zondbot. That kind of move is a deployment strategy to protect you going second on turn 1, it's not for after that when shit needs to start moving.

    You can avoid all of this nonsense by simply taking any of the far better, cheaper, skirmishers to do the role being described of skirmishing and holding flanks, not co-opting some really expensive, badly designed TAG into the role it's not really designed for because its tail happens to really do it for you.
     
  14. MrNailbrain

    MrNailbrain Relentless Optimist

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    Dude, it’s clear you have a hate boner for the Iguana. If you don’t want to play it, don’t play it! But then don’t stand in the way of those who want to try it. Let them figure it out for themselves. If you are speaking a universal truth that the Iguana sucks, then people will realize that within a game or two.

    Personally, I’ll give it a try. If it works, I’ll report the situation and why I think it worked. If it doesn’t, then I’ll explain why.
     
  15. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

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    To me the Iguana's biggest draw is it's ability to hunt down MSV ARO pieces by dropping white noise on it
     
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  16. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Saying a unit is bad =/= banning people from playing with it. I use shit units all the time, however, I never advocate them as good.

    Saying anything otherwise is a disservice to everyone. Pretending a crappy profile is good when in reality it needs to be tuned up to compete against the other options inhouse doesn't do anyone any favours.
     
    #56 Triumph, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  17. Tristan228

    Tristan228 Morlock trainer
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    My main argument against TAGs in general is this guy:
    Foreign Company
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]1
    ZERO Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Combi Rifle, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 24)

    0.5 SWC | 24 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
    Why buying and maintaining a TAG when you can steal and wreck one?
    Thus the Iguana doesn't exist for me in FC.
    And I'm good in playing without one. But IMO any player who is good in using TAGs should be able to deploy the Iguana and be successful with it.
    It's clearly not as good as a Szalamandra or Cutter but better than the Anaconda (by the way: seemingly every Tohaa player cried about how shitty the Gorgos is, now Spiral got the Anaconda! What a success :D).
     
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  18. csjarrat

    csjarrat Well-Known Member
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    Anaconda is just oversized HI. At least it is cheap and gives something to do for test run lol
     
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  19. Cthulhu363

    Cthulhu363 Well-Known Member

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    I love the Iguana, but the Anaconda has similar weapons + panzerfaust. I like both of them. *shrugs* To each his own.
     
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  20. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The Iguana has speed that it's contemporaries don't have. MOV 6-4 with a commanding lof is no joke