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For lack of a better idea where this should go...

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Teslarod, Feb 6, 2019.

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  1. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    My problem with this whole affair is, that these bans hit only one side. I don't absolve them from guilt of some of there mistakes they made in the whole process, but this one-sided hit is for me personal a problem.
    This forum seems sometimes to be a legal vacuum in terms of CB-rules. I'm really missing more moderator (not better, cause @psychoticstorm makes a verry good job) and to take more measures against violations of the forum rules.

    Mistakes where made on all sides, beginning with the newest FAQ from CB over the overreaction of some of the WC who spent verry much time into a question list mostly ignored by them over the counterreaction of other WC's/communitymembers.

    It is a pitty that all of this harmed our beloved hobby and I hope we will not take further consequences from this happening.
     
    Wolf, Lesh' and Teslarod like this.
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

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    The overall outlook is just concerning.
    On the one hand we get an official 1.5 FAQ that barely answers the questions it asks. People with a trackrecord of derailing things on purpose and no intention to further the corresponding discussion roam free and can pretty much do whatever they want with no consequences in sight.
    Uprising wasn't pretty and the ashes are still smoldering a year later. Mostly because yet again a few people went to great lengths in their attempt to rile up the community against it and are still refusing to give up on their fool's errand. Something that fortunately never succeeded but could have been toned down to a much more civil manner with a little CB involvement.

    The hands off approach for pretty much anything that isn't a flaring garbage fire makes torching things to watch them burn the premier option to get pretty much anything done or a response for.
    The louder you yell the more likely for a wild Koni, Hellois or Bostria to show up and do or say something.
    Being on your best behavior just gets you ignored until the corresponding thread dies of old age.

    So why would you attempt anything else than provoke and start a riot at this point?
    It's the about the only thing to achieve anything and that's just the sad truth of our current reality.

    What's the long term goal here CB? Sit out the year and hope the black N is gonna magically fix everything?
    Keep dropping Sectorials of wildly variing quality until everything turns out all right by chance?

    Maybe it could be a good idea to give the players something they actually can work with once here and there. Wasn't there a pending statement on the Intent debate that's still awol? An actual FAQ or a bunch of straight up Errata to fix some of the remaining issues, according to recent developments there still seems to be demand.
    Heck how about a grace period or "open Beta" where new releases aren't ITS legal for a while to allow for community debugging and stuff to still get reworked or tweaked if necessary.

    Fighting the symptomes is a necessary evil, but how about taking a step back to look at the root of the problem once in a while.
    Nobody is perfect, but improvement is a process.
     
    #22 Teslarod, Feb 6, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
    Berjiz, injenegr, Modock and 14 others like this.
  3. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Wauw.. That sentence can be taken out of context in such a bad way! :joy::see_no_evil:
     
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  4. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    My main issue is what CB need to look themselves in the mirror given that yet again, the community made an effort to fix the stuff CB doesn't want to bother with....

    -Comlog
    -Spud's hacking helper and reference sheets
    -Online ITS X classified objective tool

    All these are prime examples of the community stepping in.

    I get that CB wasn't happy with what was going on given some of the comments I saw, but by golly is this an affront to anyone with any PR knowledge. "Nuke it from orbit, and then just go back to not resolving the issue (PS for CB: not telling us you're working on it, even if you are, means people will assume you are not) does not sit well. Let's not forget that the community toxicity around this is in part CB's doing for the way they have treated people asking about why preview rules/profiles/etc ended up not being accurate, and being treated in a "trolling" manner.

    When will we get our answers? Or was the intent actually to send a message to those of us who bring broken rules up so that we stop bringing up said broken rules? I really, REALLY hope not...
     
    #24 theradrussian, Feb 6, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
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  5. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    Speaking of, I find your choice of emoji very unfortunate :P
     
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  6. Pierzasty

    Pierzasty Null-Space Entity

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    Just like re-edited and indexed 2ed rules, the flash army builder (which later gained official status), like 6 other army builders for various platforms, a working tournament organizing tool, the list goes on.

    I prefer to look at it as further proof that independent initiative tends to trump official one in all aspects not depending on overwhelming resource base.
     
  7. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Hey, leave the monkeybusiness to H&M! :laughing:
     
  8. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
    Warcor

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    I personally admire their enthusiasm, the efforts they made for actually making a FAQ. Whether it is official or unofficial.

    Only if it was done by CB rule teams, I would totally support the action.

    That is what I want, at least, CB should take some ice-cold water by this incident. ACT. PLEASE. I like the game, I like CB, I won't like it covered in dust and unsupported.
     
  9. SmaggTheSmug

    SmaggTheSmug Well-Known Member

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    Banning Warcors after acting out of line on forums or social media should be a swift action from CB, since they represent the company and community.

    That said, this forum seems a little lax with handing out bans (and temp-bans) in general. I think the whole site would be a lot more civil if people were given 3- or 7-day "vacations" more often, rather than repeated pleading in red text. Maybe a little less stale too, as forums like this after a while seem to revolve around the same 10-15 users (that was the reason I stopped using such websites for nearly a decade).
     
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  10. Sobakaa

    Sobakaa Member

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    Wow, it's been some time since i posted here... We now get gif avatars even. Yet CB doesn't change at all.
    I remember when N3 first came out they had these threads where Koni or someone else would clarify rules question. Lasted for like 6 months and then he disappeared from rules section forever. Community combined that knowledge into one FAQ and it was pinned. Not sure old forums are still alive for us to access it.
    Many many years later we still have questions and quantum rules and whatnot that still requires answers. How are we supposed to play ITS if ruleset is floppy like a taco - one warcor allows vertical non-reciprocal lof, the other does not. I've been annoyed by CB protectors and white-knights for a long time now, which is one of the reasons i haven't been on the forums for years - small indie company, can't handle all the rules, give them time, they learn... Many years have passed since N3 release and i can say for sure now - they aren't indie anymore and they haven't learned. They might still be small but is that an excuse?
    As for the warcor faq, i was and am quite displeased how a bunch of people have pushed their rulings down my throat, effectively stealing monopoly on rules interpretation from CB. They should've sent that document for CB to approval and work with them to solve those issues. They didn't and they deserve to lose warcor status for that.
    On the other hand, CB replied with "some of those entries were wrong". Which? What was wrong? What's correct then? Nope, not a word.
    At this point Games Workshop updates their rules more often than CB, releasing beta rules and approving or changing them after a couple of major tournaments, which is frankly mind-boggling - one still clings to printed codices with 60 quid cost and the other has everything digital in PDF...
     
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  11. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    At this point I am genuinely surprised there is still no official announcement about the lack of proper FAQ and answers to outstanding rules questions. Corvus Belli, I am a software developer and I don't know shit about PR management, but I think it is quite obvious that whatever your PR manager is doing at this point, they are doing wrong.
     
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  12. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    Well CB's face of the company is out doing stuff like this, so....

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Tom McTrouble

    Tom McTrouble Well-Known Member

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    So maybe you can shed some light on this for me. Is the issue that the document was supposed to be proofread by CB prior to release and that didn't happen/was coupled with personal attacks? Or is the issue that the effort was taken at all?
     
  14. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    The main issue was that the project was presented in a way that made it look like an official release, that people criticizing the document and its presentation were attacked in turn, and that the whole thing ended with personal attacks on CB staff.

    It wasn't about taking the effort. It was about execution. And this problem is actually reflected in this thread. People criticizing CB's approach are making a lot of good points. But the way they're presenting it - using derogatory language and defending that use - is derailing any effort to make those points stick. There's another side to that coin, yes. People were making those points politely for years, with little effect. But it seems that this will finally change.
     
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  15. theradrussian

    theradrussian Well-Known Member

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    1000 times this. I love to meme it up as much as I can get away with, but the use of bad language doesnt f****** help :D
     
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  16. Koni

    Koni BanHammer
    CB Staff

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    Hello forum users,

    We're totally aware about your concerns about the current state of the FAQs for Infinity. We'll make an official statement about the new roadmap regarding the FAQs in the coming days.


    Thank you for your patience and understanding.
     
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