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Fix the Bøyg

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by Judge Dredd, Mar 28, 2020.

  1. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Not mine, CB's apparently they view the Boyg as a large but extra mobile suit capable of deployment in any kind of combat theater no matter how harsh the conditions. I also suspect they view the baseline stronger ML the Boyg gets and its ability to carry an enhanced Mk12 which aren't normally available to S2 humans as "superior firepower" similar to the Yan Huo suits it's based off, though your own interpretation of that may vary.


    No the Guijia complaints revolved around it's very difficult to justify putting in a list versus competing HI attack options inhouse not that it's garbage vs a Pan-O TAG (or at least mine did I don't speak for everyone obviously).

    Keep in mind these arguments were all pre TacAw buff for TAGs. It's far less problematic now its order to points efficiency doubled. I'm not over the moon about it but at least I feel less like I've punched myself in the dick everytime I take one for a TAG oriented mission.
     
    #241 Triumph, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    Got any more of those previews on N4 Profiles, CB insider oppinions etc?
    I see I have been reading a different forum than you.
    Or was tripping on something all this time.

    Yes, the Guija's Faction internal problems have always been the main thing holding it back, a close second being the necessary buff to PH value for all Pilots. In the right circles the Guija has long been known as the ultimate secretly good Profile next to the Lizard.
    People are generally reluctant to pull cross Faction comparisons of very similar Profiles, due to the nuanced and complicated differences of +1 CC and AP or Shock CCW making a hell of a difference in N3.
     
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  3. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    One? Everything else.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I'm just drawing logical conclusions from a new HI suit developed for the sectorial subject to the harshest conditions in the human sphere and the fact that it seems to have a focus on mobility/agility plus large guns.


    My own arguments naturally, the Yu Jing forum is home to just as many stupid comparisons as the Pan-O ones and I don't speak for everyone.

    Ironically something I've brought up alot, you give the pre TacAw Guijia a HGL and it'd actually have a solid reason to be taken.
     
  5. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    I deem it best to let your arguments speak for themselves for everyone to build their own oppinion.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    If you don't like hearing them, too bad I guess.
     
  7. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    No no, your insights are a riot man.
    Keep em coming.

    The context you come up with and the chain of selective logic that is completely beyond me, makes for an interesting read.
     
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  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    It's simply based around the understanding that being a high tech faction doesn't mean being the most high tech in every facet of the game's lore or technology, especially when it comes to military structure and equipment. I don't think it's a difficult concept but if you say it's beyond you then I guess it is what it is then.
     
    #248 Triumph, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  9. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    Regarding PanO BS advantage; I think that at least part of the high BS cost - and the focus it gets - is a remnant of the old N2 rule that in case of a tie higher stat acted as a tiebreaker. +1 BS was a substantial advantage at the time, and I suspect that some of that mindset still lingers in the design team.
     
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  10. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the Yan Huo comparison: If the boyg had a Hyper-Rapid-Magnetic-Cannon i would consider bringing him along.
     
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  11. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    While not as common as a spitfire, the MK12 is pretty common on enhanced humans and S2 HI as they're the only ones strong enough to handle it (see below), except for UR because as far as I know he is your standard issue human (I left the aliens out because they don't count but there are a few s2 profiles with mk12s).

    Shakti
    Agema
    Posthumans
    Handful of heroes
    Wulvers
    Vet kazaks
    Unknown ranger
    Khawarijs
    Sin Eater
    Karakuri


    The MK12 is an amazing weapon, it's cheap, doesnt take SWC, good/useful rangebands, good damage and any thing additional that gets added to the profile with it tend take from good to amazing. In the case of the Boyg you have a BS14, Dam 15, SWCless spitfire with high arm/BTS, and 2 wounds, which on paper is great, it's basically a red fury TM that trades in its very useful defensive kit for +1 BS, +2 Damage, - 1 SWC and +2 points. Which is where it falls down, an expensive assault gunfighter that has no real way to defend itself (outside of dodging) in the midfield is just going to get smoked and have it's faceplate caved in by a 5 point psychopath with a Bo staff.
     
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  12. Benkei

    Benkei Well-Known Member

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    I would bring the Guijia along if it had C+ and Mimetism, but I understand YJ is not the TAG faction and if I wanted cool TAGs I could play PanO, but some people just want their faction to get everything I suppose.

    Like Triumph says, it seems some people here mistake being a high tech faction with the right to have the best of everything disregarding faction identity and game balance.

    P. D: and the HRMC Yan Huo is still bad and you probably wouldn't take it neither
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    In its defense, that's an issue alot of the S5 HI run into though. CC for most of them who don't speak Japanese or Greek tends to not be a whole lot of fun.
     
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  14. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Even for the Greeks that's not a lot of fun, but unlike the greeks the Boyg can hide behind a minefield with protection from other list elements.
     
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  15. CabalTrainee

    CabalTrainee Well-Known Member

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    Well yes i actually already do. Cheapest way in the game to get the weapon. The profile is amazing in vanilla/limited insertion. And now especially in Code One with the 10 point discount in comparison to N3. Also i never said PanO should get something like that. I'm fine with PanO with what we have i am only arguing against the Yan Huo being garbage. (His missile launcher profile is garbage though).
     
  16. Pinky

    Pinky Well-Known Member

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    In the context of SWF with 4-4 move and BS 14 a Boyg with a HRMC would be pretty useful, as there's no real alternative in the sectorial to a 60-70 point ARO clearing unit that's not relying on 5 man link bonuses, which you may want in other roles. PanO lacks smoke and always needs a long range point man to clear AROs efficiently.
     
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  17. Cartographer

    Cartographer Well-Known Member

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    I think CB just have a very different idea to the rest of us as to just how effective a Missile Launcher is in the active turn.
    Re-purposing my micro-TAG idea from VIRD ('cus we're not going to get a new TAG ever it seems), a HSG and eclipse LGL platform (I wanted FA 2 but that could be FA 1 + Hyperdynamics easily enough) no visual modifiers or deployment skills. The Boyg would fit quite well, give it the weapons and skills for CQB and leave it with a big vulnerability that you have to play around or cover elsewhere in the list.
    (and yes, I'm well aware what Knights would do with the option to blanket an area with 3 eclipse templates, Deus Vult!)
     
  18. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    One of the biggest disappointments is that they keep choosing to ignore that Mine Dispenser exists. Something like the Boyg would fit well as a PanO area denial tool, with a Mine Dispenser to seed a killzone.

    Also establishes why it's not just a S2 HI or a TAG.
     
  19. kanluwen

    kanluwen Well-Known Member

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    So apparently I won the thread or something? Yay! :P
     
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  20. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    A mine chucker would be awesome, but I dont know how that would mesh with Voodoo Tech aspect. I mean swapping out the ML for a feuerbach could arguably be a good upgrade for it. As is, a Boyg ML cant do much to a link and mimetic/camo models get an edge over it pretty quick. An extra die goes a long way if nothing else. The ML just relies pretty heavily on bad positioning to maximize its worth. The Wip 12 and no courage is just killer though to it being reliable in ARO. It can take a hit, it can tank it but it's going to duck way too often. Means it cant suppress as well as being a missile turret it's just strictly inferior to the KoJ. I honestly dont know what would help it, but at this point, it's just anything would and C1 looks like it might go down a few points at the very leasst, but that just makes it a worse cheaper gamma, rather than almost the same cost.
     
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