MSV2 is in general too expensive if you don't bring smoke on your own. It is too expensive of a piece that *depends* on the enemy to bring the right equipment for it to counter. And even then, against mimestism and normal camo a msv1 would have the same effect, far cheaper. Bringing a MSV2 on the table means you expect the enemy to bring smoke, ODD, TO camo or all of those. The good MSV2 troops are the ones that are cheap and work even if the MSV isn't useful. You mentioned Nisses and Black Friars - exactly. Nisses are fantastice because of their combination of BS13, good weapons and mimetism. If they get to use the MSV, then even better. Black friars I only see the Rifle one, EXACTLY because the Nisse sniper exist. And that one brings albedo and drop bears, making it a very good situational piece. The problem of MSV is when that is the only thing the unit does. Look at the Asuras outside of this sectorial, or at Aquila guards. Or at the spitfire Spec Sergeant. All of those only bring the MSV as extra, all of those are considered meh because if they can't force the msv to work then they are no better than much cheaper troops. The Marut exacerbates the problem. She pays nearly 30 points for a MSV2.
The smoke is particularly hillarious. Congrats on the firepower guys, welcome to the limitations that come with it. And by that i mean welcome to pano.....or tjc/onyx
You aren't paying 120 points just for the MSV2. You get a lot for that value, and to pretend otherwise is frankly silly. If you're only looking at her for the MSV2, then no, don't use her. Bad idea. But it's a perk that she brings, and it's still bloody useful if you want to run the TAG. I'm not saying she's perfect, I'm saying she's fine and worthy of putting on the table. Perhaps because you have no interest in playing vanilla and you want to play Vedic? There are a lot of us who prefer sectorial play, so rather than just carp about how we can't everything in our sectorial that we can get in vanilla, we learn to make what we do have work for us. I played PanO for years with MSV2 and no smoke; never cramped my style. Yeah, which is actually a pretty fair assumption if you're going to a tournament and have to play five rounds. In your local meta, your mileage may vary. Wait, wait: since when are Aquila guards considered "meh"? I know PanO players like to bitch about how they wish they were cooler, but those are solid units. And what's wrong with the Spec. Sergeant, exactly? Your examples here--aside from the Asura--do not comport at all with my experience of playing this game or of talking to other players. I see Aquilas routinely; I see MSV2 Sgts and Blackfriar Snipers in MO routinely. Both Aquilas and Sgts are excellent camo hunters and, as you say, the BF MSR fills the same useful niche as a Nisse MSR. Mind showing me your math on that? I'm not one of the formula crunchers here so I'm not saying you're wrong; but just looking at Marut vs. Jotum, I don't see it.
But really, that's fine. I'll just declare a Nanopulser shot, if I can get 2-3 of them under it and they dodge then I'm likely to kill 2/3 of those I hit, and that's a good enough trade for her. If they declare a dodge, I'll probably kill like, one Frontovik and then just do it again. All I have to do is take out a couple members of that team and I've taken out 50-60pts, broken a main fireteam bonus and such. If my opponent strings them out then that's fine too, can move into CC, or soak up pistol shots while Nanopulsering one or two of them. And we're talking about a five man team with Mimetism here. She can easily hunt down lighter troops in other locations where they don't have nearly the resilience. Put it like this. Andromeda's Silhouette is a pain, yes, but it's a pain which I think is more than mitigated by a 75% chance of deploying anywhere on the board outside the deployment zone, with a nasty template attack and CQB weaponry. Yeah it's definitely a 1st turn thing, but it's potentially crippling for your opponent.
The Marut is 27pts more than a Squalo and gets +3 WIP, +3 BTS, Strategos L3, a HFT and a Nanopulser (loses a Heavy Pistol, eh I'd rather have the templates but wev) and MSV2 for the cost. Oh, and a superior roboid buddy with +3 WIP on that too., actually extremely useful for objectives and can regularly come into play. That's pretty good. The MSV2 on her costs a lot because the Marut is in a very strong position to use it. The Marut is also in a Sectoral/faction with cheaper orders (Netrods), cheaper and better Engineers (Proxy Mk1) and access to more and more capable KHDs to protect her from hacking. Not to say that PanO doesn't run TAGs really well, it does, they're actually really cheap for BS 15 ranged murder machines, but that is kind of their thing, and the Marut is definitely a centrepiece for the list. Nonetheless, it's perfectly useable.
I feel like CB are deliberately making not everyone have the MSV smoke trick, particularly the higher and lower tech sectorials. Sure MSV2+ has a particular synergy with smoke, but if everyone got the same tricks the game would be more samey, so I'm kinda glad they do not. And in an environment where data trackers are a thing, I think Asuras are definitely worth it now. Maybe more of a toss up with Achilles in vanilla (depends on mission maybe), but in sectorial where she can be your active Lt with an extra order, support hacker, your killer hacker, your MSV counter (with HD+), your midfield attack piece vs camo etc, your super reliable button pusher, and your datatracker she's so worth it IMHO. I dunno about Marut, because I don't play them so much but my friend who is one of the best Aleph players in my country seems OK enough with them. Sure you don't get smoke trick, but often it doesn't need it, and you do get good links to back it up in compensation, and TAG + link can be a pretty strong combo too. I think maybe people who complain about it are just looking at what they are losing, and not looking at what they get for it.
You don't get the MSV2 and Smoke trick in a Sectoral that can do the White Noise and a gun trick, unless you're StarCo which can do it with a few very specific pieces (notably various forms of LI, characters and warbands) and in general really relies on chaffy light cheap troops and lacks heavy firepower so dirty tricks and extreme synergy is absolutely necessary. Bakunin, Tunguska, Onyx and Operations are the Sectorals than can put down White Noise, none of them get MSV2 and Smoke (the ones that get MSV2 don't get Smoke, and vice versa).
... I especially like how somehow having access to White Noise is supposed to make a 120 points MSV Lt a good choice for the list.
That wasn't my point. My initial point was that the Marut is good and doesn't need smoke. My further point is that outside of StarCo, a notably very light faction, no Sectoral has MSV2 and Smoke and White Noise and a regular gun. That doesn't mean that White Noise makes the Marut good, I never said that! The two things are not necessarily related!
For the ten thousandth time, USE THE BLEEPING TERRAIN RULES. As others have point out, that's not even close to the case. Worst-case, the MSV2 is 15pt on the Marut, given how many other bonuses the TAG has. P.S. Multiterrain as well!
Also, I think the Vedic links are easily some of the best in the game. Just with the Dakini. You can start the game with a B2 BS16 Mimetic Shock Immune Sniper with two levels of unconscious up. You have B2 BS18 NWI flashpulses. Active turn you have an effective BS17 B5 Mimetism Shock HMG with two levels of unconscious. And WIP 15 specialists with rerolls to heal in the unlikely case they lose. That's ridiculously good IMHO. And that's before we even get to the divine beast that is a linked Asura Spitfire ...
Your maths doesn't add up. Hitting 3 models (Algs stats used) with a nanopulsar that all Dodge 55% of those pass their Dodge. 35% of the failures pass their BTS roll. So you probably take 1 UNC (~88%). You have a 2.5% chance of taking all 3 Unc. I'm not saying she's bad. I'm saying that absent really exploitable deployment, you're offering a poor plan to use her.
The maths adds up ("If they declare a dodge, I'll probably kill like, one Frontovik and then just do it again.") but the post was a bit loose regarding hitting and killing.
