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First impressions on Vedic now that it's on army?

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by Bard, Sep 10, 2018.

  1. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Except that summary is completely flawed. None of the Special Haris Fireteams can be composed of 2 models. They can ONLY be composed of the 2+1 combination that has been defined. Similarly, Duo D, per your summary, would allow the existince of a Rudras/Samekh Duo when neither of the models has the skill - and is therefore invalid.

    The issue is, "Wildcard Trooper" (and the half-arsed Rudras equivalent) isn't a rule. Going by it's explanation, it still needs to follow the rules for how Fireteams are composed. ie, I cannot create a duo of CSU and Deva and then add a Samekh as a 3rd model - because a Duo CANNOT be 3 models. The text of the Wildcard trooper says it can join "Any Link", not that it replaces one of the requisite models.

    As such, the Special Fireteams are ONLY valid when made up of the required composition - the fireteam has been defined that way, so that is the "Rules" of it's makeup. If a Rudras was to "count as" a Yadu, this would be different, because then it could fit. Likewise, if the Wildcard Trooper came with the stipulation that it was allowed to replace a prerequisite troop, it would be fine. But those definitions haven't been made, so the logic of it doesn't work.

    I've already given up beating my head into the desk trying to get a clear answer from someone at CB, or someone like IJW who is effectively authorised to give one, because all I get in return is "You're reading it wrong" or posts that underline and bold the word "Any" without actually paying any heed to what has been explained. Similarly, none of the "answers" given then go on to provide actual examples that they say are valid. All of these questions are just artfully dodged by responding without responding and addressing the problem.

    Like with this whole Deva profiles in NCA shitshow, where IJW's response was "Only the Haris is limited" but Koni has replied (in the Warcor forum only, apparently) that the new Deva profiles are not allowed - in spite of there being no restriction. So IJW "answered" without actually answering and confirming anything, only for it to be completely overruled by someone else, but only in a forum that can't be seen by the majority of Infinity players.
     
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  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Missing 0-1 Asura from Haris C. You mention that it's incompatible with the Deva.

    @praelix makes a good point though. All the special Haris are missing the "up to X" troops so even if you interpret Wildcard as "can count as whatever you want in a link" and Rudras as "up to one counts as whatever you want it to in a Yadu Fireteam" you still can't compose a Special Haris of 2 models.
     
    #262 inane.imp, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
  3. ValoTerra

    ValoTerra Lightning Weaver

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    If it's any help, from a linguistic perspective both "Wildcard" and "Comodín" (the word used in the Spanish) refer to something/someone that can be counted as anything as needed. Thus the Samekh counts as any trooper as necessary.
    Hopefully this term becomes added into the main rules + wiki so that people will have an easy base to check on it.
     
  4. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Don't get me wrong - I understand, entirely, what the intention of the rule is. But Intention =/= rules.
     
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  5. robot_jones

    robot_jones BEES!

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    Honestly, I don't know where to start. Everytime a new sectorial comes out, I try to include a bit of everything into my list but the list ends up trying too much lol.

    Also is the Yadu NCO suppose to have both Combi AND HMG?
     
  6. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    No, it's a copy paste error the profiles PDF has it right.
     
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  7. robot_jones

    robot_jones BEES!

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  8. Nemo No Name

    Nemo No Name Aleph Cultural Atache

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    @paraelix The Wildcard troopers, Rudra included, were intended to be able to replace an existing model in the team. Rudra can only replace a Yadu, others can replace whomever.

    As for linking Duo and Harris, remember the rule is you still need someone with that skill. Furthermore, my definition of CSU Duo team requires at least one CSU. I do not use the "join" or "replace" word constructs. Just follow numerical limitations, both within specific Fireteam and general Fireteam type ones (Harris can never go above 3 and requires someone with the skill).

    As for the special teams that require full 3 members, yeah, forgot to fix when I copied, my original write-up was also assuming they'd drop that silly requirement. I fixed it now.

    @inane.imp iits meant to be 0-1 one or the other, not 0-1 with condition. But I changed it slightly now.
     
    #268 Nemo No Name, Sep 15, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2018
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  9. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    It's really not that hard and people should probably read the rules more carefully. A TO banning it isn't really on.
     
  10. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Like I said. I know what the intention was. The rules did not achieve this. However IJW has finally given a straight answer on the matter, so it's fine. I just hope they follow my suggestion and clarify this in the Fireteam rules/wiki - because these exceptions are becoming the rule.
     
  11. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Jesus wept.

     
  12. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Like people kept telling me to do when I called out the fragility of Ikari links and their mandatory requirements, and everyone told me I was an idiot and didn't know what I was talking about... Except *they* were the ones reading it wrong.
     
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  13. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Just like the infinity rules - each response hidden away in a different, unrelated thread and without anyone giving direct links to clear responses. Apologies, but I don't play the game based on hearsay - someone saying "John told me that Jim said he heard Fred tell him that Annabelle made a rules clarification in a closet on Wednesday" isn't errata or FAQ. When I ask for a clarification and a determination on a rule, bolding the word "Any" without regard for the argument and justification put in front of you is not answering the question.

    Like your response on new Deva profiles being valid in NCA - how is that going for you? Still waiting for you to respond, in the thread about the issue, about whether your response is valid or if Koni is correct and they're not.
     
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  14. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
    Infinity Rules Staff Warcor

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    Those quotes are all from the main Fireteams thread in the rules forum. Not hidden away, not in unrelated threads.

    Please stop taking the piss, and start reading people's posts.

    Devas in NCA is waiting on official word from CB.
     
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  15. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Okey, but why Rudra fireteam rules couldn't be written as "Counts as Yadu for fireteam purposes" ?
     
  16. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    That would allow you to take multiple Rudras.
     
  17. paraelix

    paraelix Seed Embryo Scholar

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    Unless it said "Up to 1".

    To be fair, if they are all in the "Fireteam" thread - why do none of the responses from you in the other threads direct people to the calrifications made there? Is that not easier for you to do?
     
  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Ok, true.
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Ian Wood aka the Wargaming Trader. Rules & Wiki
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    Give it a rest.
     
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  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I have a question... Why is there no Specops for Vedic? The Tunguska sectorial got the new and shiny Securitate, and the TAK has the Line Kazak (I'm not sure if it's new or has always been there).

    Is that an oversight or are we stuck with the Chandra as the only Specops for Aleph, forever?
     
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