What do you mean "revival of Tohaa?" Tohaa are doing fine. They have amazing noninteractive gameplay, which is the most powerful way to play this game.
It would be a risky move, but would open up new decisions for Fireteams. Maybe you won't move up to the middle of the table the Fireteam in the first turn, but later on.
Not sure how other factions getting a small piece of Tohaa's cake is going to make CB un-OOP Tohaa. It's not like how Tohaa being at, or very close to, the apex of the current power curve (for several people who's opinion I respect) is doing it, so...
Some think it's because they hit a wall with design. It could free them up a little. I don't really know. Just a thought.
CB definitely hit a wall of their own , but they gave themselves an out with N4s +x, -x, and (x) system. They should use it a lot more.
Maybe, but since fireteams bonuses mainly have to do with winning firefights, and the closer you get the closer you get to things that don't care about FtF rolls (mines, DTWs, etc) it'd have to be a big bonus. But I'm guessing you'd prefer more stick than carrot in this case.
I agree with this! I'd like to see them get rid of Martial arts and just do CC Attack (+3/-3, +1 Dmg) for example.
The rules book can be so trimmed down this way. Mimetism gets changed to BS Attack -3 or -6. MSV gets changed to Immunity BS Attack -3 or -6. They've already got Discover +3 on some troops. My Inmunity NBW skill isnt looking so bad anymore. But really NBW would be changed to Immunity CC-3/+3.
I don't know which one is the stick and which one the carrot, but I'd love to see more incentives to using Fireteams (specially Core Fireteams) for more things than just shooting. It is one of the things I've always liked about Tohaa's mixed Fireteams.
Sure, it'd be cool if there were more cool things. But you'll notice that they nerfed the Flash Pulse/Fireteam interaction going into N4, and now people are talking like they want the FtF bonuses of fireteams curtailed. To be frank, the power level of fireteams isn't the problem, it's the complexity and arbitrary nature of who can be in them. The power level of vanilla is more of a problem. Tohaa is obviously a special case.
I really like that idea where if a unit had Core it could join any Core and if a unit had Haris it could join any Haris etc.
I really don't get it. I haven't seen Vanilla do any better than sectorals. Other than Combined and Nomads. I still get kicked with vanilla by core teams. Of course I'm the guy that rolls 1s when I need 19 or less. I will say vanilla Yu Jing, for me, is better than ISS or White Banner, on par with IA. That's only because ISS has been ignored and doesn't have the tools to do missions and White Banner might as well be Vanilla if not for the fireteams. So I loose only marginally better than them.
It's all about the amount of equipment you need to bring on the very tight budget you have. You need a primary gun, a second primary gun, an ARO gun, an infiltrating assassin, a method of dealing with bears, a method of dealing with rear attackers, a way to directly mitigate impersonators, preferably a sufficiently strong unit that can be brought in when and where it is needed or redundant skirmishers, you need button pushers that are preferably infiltrating, you need a variety of specialists, and you need orders to run all of it. Oh, and you'll want as much as possible in camo and spread out so they don't get locked down. Some things you can offload on a second list, but you'll probably quickly see that sectorials can not, in fact, bring this much variety and will probably be paying a premium on a number of these things. Some sectorials can through very specific design deal with many threats without having multiple specialised redundancies, but... Well vanilla typically has access to all of this and can put a decent amount under camo, to boot. If your meta tends towards more meme lists or thematic lists or honourable lists - whatever you call lists that aren't chockful of bears, impersonators and guided pitcher spam - you'll have an environment where sectorials can thrive better as the pressure on specialised units is reduced. Honestly, you're not fixing this by altering fireteam bonuses.
I agree. I realized this a little over a month ago. Removing these skills and buffs by taking out any of a teams members is too easy. You were right when you suggested sectorial specific profiles and loudouts. Fireteams can keep some of their bonuses just because there needs to be something there for them and their risks of running around together but things like more +1 burst, +3 discover or sensor, more availability of potent ammunition etc etc. CB can remove these profiles and loadouts when these units go back to vanilla if they like in order for there to be an actual choice if necessary. All this kind of points to the limitations that CB has been slowly removing from various armies over the years. I think there are two ways of achieving the balance: either give everyone access to all the same stuff reasonably equally or double down on the strengths and specialities of these armies so that those strengths can contend with the variables of other armies. Just going to use this as an example, just an example okay everyone. If CB were to never give JSA better shooting, hacking or survivable templating then they might consider buffing their CC some of their CC troops can't be countered and improve some of the dodging of some of them to avoid cheap templates and burn through the enemy's orders better. Again, just an example of how if CB isn't going to give everything to everyone, that they could double down in order achieve balance.
Yeah... ITS mission design probably needs a look, and the game definitely needs a few targetted nerfs at this point. A few problem units that need exactly the right counter to reasonably deal with are crowding out variety. Usually I just don't get to play against serious tournament lists- typically the set of people I game with casually actually want to try out new strategies once in a while. It really irks me when I check tournament rules for the rare organised local events and find that the mission set just doesn't let me play half my armies if I want to win against an opponent who's trying- and I know from unfortunate personal experience that the local Warcor's own table renders TAGs nearly unplayable, which limits my options even further. Not a great feeling when out of several thousand points of minis I have to take the same couple of Nomad or Yu Jing list archetypes or play at a disadvantage; typically I've just resorted to accepting I'm not going to win anything and bring my NCA because it's fun.
What if CB made something along the lines of the more members of a unit you added to your list the more varied loadouts became available to field but just because 1 dies, you wouldnt lose the new loadouts kit. So more versatile and dependable than fireteam bonuses. This way CB can prevent 4 Fusiliers powering up whatever, and instead by fielding 4 fusiliers you gained access to make 1 or all 4 of them one of the new available loadouts. This way we can mitigate the diminishing returns of bringing 3 of something that you normally only want to bring one of. So bringing 3+ of something could give you access to critical kit like sensor, +3 discover, more pontent weaponry or ammunition types, specialist types. This could possibly also get rid of fireteam bonuses if things are associated with the number of a unit fielded instead of coherency. CB could also make it a points Expenditure thing as well, spend x amount of points in a given unit and u lock its unlockable gear, it could have a tier system too. 35 points worth of fusiliers unlocks access to A, 60 points worth of fusiliers unlocks access to B. 60 points worth of Orcs u locks access to A. In the case of Domaru or Karakuri or Aragoto it could be "bring 2/3 of" or it could be "bring 20/40/60 points of" to unlock shit. You can do this with Kum, Airborne Rangers, Oniwaban, anything within reason and need of the army to be as versatile as Vanilla, this would also allow Vanilla to get access to the same stuff as long as they have the AVA for it. Seems fair.
This way of listbuilding is interesting, and a nice incentive for pure Fireteams, but I don't see it being implemented right know because it is a big departure from the current rules. Maybe it could be an interesting idea to explore for Infinity N5.
