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Female Knights!

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by ThananRollice, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    And the Catholic and Orthodox Churches among others are merged under Neovatican, so... yeah?

    From a realistic perspective the PanOceania church cannot exist, the doctrines and deep ideological differences (and quite real power struggles that have nothing to do with religion) divide Christianity in ways that will never coexist, accepting Christianity united under one banner one must accept first of all the fantasy of it and to suspend the disbelief of it that the resulting thing has no relation with any of its constituent parts.

    The deeds are structured according to the present day deeds, but one can argue it is the most marketable way to appeal to the wider audience, in the fluff they reemerged after Church got the resurrection from what I can gather, so it is related to this more than anything else.

    What I say and mean is the Infinity Christian church is a fictional entity that has some resemblance but is not related to any real christian church and commenting on that church by any involved is not an attack to any of the real contemporary churches or to somebodies belief or religion.

    It is the same way as Haqqislamite faith, a fictional fabrication that looks real enouph to be convincing, but really has not relation to the real world equivalent.
     
  2. Kahlain

    Kahlain Greeble-Faust investigator

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    Very cool stuff here. Thank you all.

    So a PanOceania kindergarten class might virtually travel to farm, milk virtual cows, etc. That might not be possible in Ariadna. And young Nomads might do virtual pressure suit and EVA drills.

    Quite cool.

    While deployed / in the field, our Knights could well attend virtual mass at the the NeoVatican. Virtual briefings at Hexahedron, etc.

    Which begs the question: in N3, what is the practical limit on communications that appear instantaneous?
     
  3. Kahlain

    Kahlain Greeble-Faust investigator

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    Because something is succesful, it must be by design?

    I don't buy it. Read Dwakin's Blind Watchmaker. Success doesnt always imply design. This profitability could well be a second order effect. I/e not the result of a system whose primary, designed purpose is to turn a profit.

    For example, look at the utter scumbags the Meths turn out to be in the Kovacs books. Why? Because, life is meaningless to them. The Resurection system as positted in N3 does not appear to be granted to 100% of the believing and cotributing population. Unlike in Kovacs or Hyperion.

    So, how are candidates chosen? It appears they are chosen based upon their willingness to self sacrifice. Either by spending a great deal of time serving one of the N3 societies/cultures, or by buying it by spending a large amount of money -- which can then be used by the Resurection Controllers to fund somebody else's self sacrifice.

    And those who self sacrifice to protect others get a very good shot at being Ressed. Possibly because this sort of self sacrifice demonstrates a reverence for the lives of others?
     
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  4. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    The background literally states that the widespread use of indulgences in order to get yourself a resurrection license is the source of the Neovatican's vast wealth. Surprise surprise, the Church is extremely profitable and powerful when anyone can join up and start handing over cash to get that particularly desirable commodity. The Neovatican is a Hyper-corporation that sells products in return for professsed faith, adherence... and large sums of money.

    So clearly, that is a big deal. And yeah personally I'm about as far from religious as one can be, but I don't have any particular beef, and we're talking about a fictional entity here? Chill out dude.
     
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  5. krossaks

    krossaks Well-Known Member

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    Point 1 about the old sense of being knight: ( excuse my english but in this matter there are too many term that i use in spanish/catalan but never used in english.

    Just in a historic prespective knights are the lowest class of nobility. They had a special category in the sense that during most centuries wasn't a hereditary class in the sens a son of a knight wasn't a knight by itself. It combined with an spartan code made becoming knight a way for the little middle class and low nobility to ascend and get a job. But as all the nobility the knight condition became a more usuall and less special during the pass of the middle ages. Deppending of the kingdom that procces was fast or slow (england/french/center-est europe slow. Mediterranean Europe fast). This procces was related to the influence and power of the the king over the high nobility, the type of wsrfare and other elements.

    For example, the kingdom of france, with a week monarchy based his forces in big knight hordes. In oposition iberic kingdoms tend to light infantery and light mounted soldiers.

    Point 2: about women in pano knights. If we look Infinity univers the idea is that gender barrier is more or less a pass thing. I don't see why can't be famale knight, if the idea of being a knight is remade i doubt they won't make as the original medieval. Most probably it will be sold as a idealistic version based on the original chavalry votes ( votos de caballeria?) more than in the real historic nobiliary only man sense.

    Point 3: why famale knights now and no when the faction start. Beacuse the referent was the historic military orders ( with all what carries). But after passing it by a fluff wash ofc on 23 century a new reborn order won't limit itself only to man ( as the whole neovatican church).

    Anyway i find coherent the have women in all roles in infinity. Maybe xan sound too much politicaly correct but i think that one utopian point of infinity id the sense that in this unicersy the gender isn't even take on account.
     
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  6. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    On the matter of whether Knighthood is a career or a conviction, and what's with Religious Troop thingy.

    Remember that even if you are running a huge corp that does many things including religious services, actual propagation of faith and values you are associated with goes a long way towards certain loyalty of people you are dealing with on many levels.

    Preaching your ideals to youth provides better recruitment and, ugh, customer (sorry) base for you in the future. Especially when you run paramilitary that doesn't explicitly work for direct profits only. Paychecks motivate people only so far in a post-scarcity environment, and even promises of resurrection may be not enough when there's a bottleneck regulating how many people can actually get a license.

    It gets even worse when you consider that resurrections or not, you're on battlefield against people that may hate your guts, and your cube is very material and a fragile thing. And susceptible to E/M weapons. And that new thing, sepsitors. And just plain old bullet to the wrong place.

    Your transcendent soul, on the other hand, is not that vulnerable. And desire to do a right thing under any circumstances sometimes worth more than any money you can make, especially when money is something you will leave behind one day since not even cube tech will carry you forever. As such, it would be a bad idea to trample your subjects' spiritual beliefs and not cultivating them...

    So, even if it's just a front for your corp, why would you break it?
     
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  7. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    No, that's just because you have "personal issues with Christianity" /s
     
  8. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    Not sure how I must read that?
     
  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    I love it when people resort to point blank lying about the published setting to try and prove their points.

    I'd ask for quotes, but we'd be waiting 'till the heat death of the universe.

    In any case, the issue is tangential to the main point about Knights, so there's no point taking it further (especially with the usual suspects starting to pile on).
     
  10. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I like PanO background.

    And I always struggled to fit the whole religious element in with the nakedly consumerist, materialist, hyper-capitalist technocratic dream of PanO.

    But then, of course! These things are easily fit with each other. When faith is a payment, religion is a commodity, devotion is fashion and scripture is advertisement, then it works perfectly. One consumes their religion in PanO, like we consume media. They tell us in the text, they cast off the hypocrisy of pretending that democratic government in a hyper-capitalist world was anything other than voting for corporate interests. Why wouldn't they view their religion as the same thing?

    Pan-Oceania; the consumerist, materialist heaven. They moneterised and capitalised faith! It sounds a bit horrible but it's also kind of amazing from a sci-fi setting point of view.
     
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  11. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Hey, I stayed out of it.

    But man... makes me glad I don’t give two tugs of a dead dogs cock about the fluff of this game.
     
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  12. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    It is, indeed, arguments like this (with all their strawmanning and blatant misrepresentations of the setting) which make me regret the background being the only reason I like it.
     
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