1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra Política de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Fatality 2 with B5...

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Zewrath, Mar 27, 2019.

  1. Icchan

    Icchan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2017
    Messages:
    755
    Likes Received:
    928
    You pay for those stats in army points. Fireteams are free.
     
  2. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,475
    Likes Received:
    1,440
    Depends how you play when you face it. Someone playing an offensive playstile and hidding his unit in reactive turn (me in Ariadna) will be roughly ok (as he doesn't plan to ARO). Someone with a defensive playstile (me in nomads) can more or less concede from the start as sheskin will kill all of his roadblock and do whatever she wants.
     
  3. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    4,309
    No, you pay for additional bodies to receive bonuses.

    (at least it was before the "wildcart" system was introduced)
     
    toadchild and inane.imp like this.
  4. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    Due to how activation delegation works in Infinity, individual model prices are even less representative of effects of taking them into the list in numbers than they normally are in wargames.

    Granted, less restrictive Fireteams of these days make your statement more accurate than ever.
     
    Guardian likes this.
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,734
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    I will give you more food for thoguht:

    From http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Fatality
    From http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/es/Fatalidad

    Difference: in spanish, an unmodified roll of 1 in the dice => crits. In english, a BS roll of 1 => crits (both specify that even if the BS was less than 1).

    Why is this relevant?
    Sheskin does not roll 1d20 and crits on 1, 19 or 20 RAW, she rolls 1d20+1 (from http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Attributes_Below_1

    )

    In english she crits on 19, 20 (1 is never obtained, because the BS roll will be 2-21).

    In spanish, there is no doubt: she rolls 1d20+1, but a 1 on the dice is a crit, and then 19 and 20 "equates to 20", and thus are critical hits.

    So, RAW: Sheskin has 10% crit rolling 5 dices (optimal situation, Fireteam Core 5) using the english rules, and 15% crit rolling 5 dices... I think that is abour 55% crit chance?
     
    Abrilete and eciu like this.
  6. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    744
    Fireteams (outside of Tohaa) has the opportunity cost of playing in a limited sectorial or in NA2. How expensive that cost is based on the gain is certainly debatable, but the cost is not zero.

    IJW already let us know that RAI is that if your BS goes above 20 rolling a 1 will not net you a crit.
     
    jimbo slice and inane.imp like this.
  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,734
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    Sorry, but I can't take that as official CB stance... If the RAI was that, then WHY is the spanish version specifying an unmodified 1 is always a crit? Edit that out, FAQ it, it's fast. Leave it, tons of discussions and further differences with the english version.

    Remember how MMX used to be wrong in english, and CB reworked the skill in 3rd off... in favour of the spanish version.
     
  8. Xeurian

    Xeurian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2017
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    744
    Good point.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  9. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    Yeah I'm gonna add my voice to this, though I will go further and say Fatality LV2 is bad in and of itself, the burst issue just makes it glaring
     
    #49 Brother Smoke, Mar 28, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2019
  10. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    4,309
    And how long do we know that ?

    (hint: since the rule came to a game)
     
    Zewrath, Brother Smoke and xagroth like this.
  11. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,436
    Likes Received:
    1,790
    A couple points to note:

    1. FAT2 according to the English version of the rule does not increase the chance to crit for Sheskiin in a 5-troop link, it simply makes sure it doesn't drop until she is solo or the FT drops to 2 members (i.e. drops to a burst of 4).

    2. The "41% chance" is misleading (though not far off the actual number) because that assumes normal rolls. Opposing crits always cancel all of yours. The actual chances start around 39% and drop for every die the AROing trooper rolls.

    I'm not trying to argue that FAT2 on Sheskiin is fine for the game, just that the numbers people are using aren't quite right.
     
    Hachiman Taro, Shoitaan and Mahtamori like this.
  12. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,419
    Likes Received:
    11,078
    Where is it saying that it's the unmodified roll?

    'cualquier resultado' is just 'any result', isn't it?

    The wording for Attributes above 20:

    "Sin embargo, el jugador sumará al resultado obtenido en el dado aquella cifra que superaba el 20 (por ejemplo, en 23 sumaría 3)."

    Unless I'm missing something, that text is altering the result of the die roll, just like the English wording.
     
  13. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    3,219
    41% chance to roll at least one crit and out of those 41%, 9% account for at least two or more Crits is mathematically correct.
    An average of 0.5 Crits per BS Attack with B5 would also be correct.

    What wouldn't be correct is to say she kills stuff 41% of the time - becuase her odds are usually higher than that. She has BS15 B5 and is more than capable to win a FTF the old school PanO way.
    She can keep up with the Yuan Dun Core Linked Hsien in damage output (he is a bit better than her against a Kamau Sniper - assuming positive Rangebands). That's downright insane considering the opportunity cost you have to pay to get access to that.
     
  14. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    4,924
    Likes Received:
    4,789
    Has anyone done the math on what raw BS you'd have to have to be mathematically close to Fat2 with Tariq and Sheskiin?
     
  15. Teslarod

    Teslarod Trebuchet Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,560
    Likes Received:
    3,219
    Against which kind of target dummy?
    FAT is a static chance that doesn't change as long as you are still at BS2 or higher.

    BS works fundamentally different. The more likely you are to roll results your opponents can't beat the more your own risk dwindles.
    FAT leaves "high" risk for the gunner, if crits are the only thing that is still winning FTF rolls.
     
  16. gregmurdock

    gregmurdock Extremely Beloved Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    981
    Well, they didn't listen the first time this was addressed with Tarik, soooo...
     
    eciu likes this.
  17. Brother Smoke

    Brother Smoke Bureau Trimurti Representative

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    911
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    I believe the answer would probably be "parad de joder" or something along those lines

    All joking aside, Symbiomates were broken for years, so I doubt this will be fixed til N4 or something
     
    meikyoushisui likes this.
  18. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    3,673
    Likes Received:
    4,309
    Not to mention they appaered suprised that FA works with supressive fire.

    Something which was beaten to death on old forums for almost half year they were still "in FA beta"....

    I still have some hope they will be fixed in N4....
     
    ErdinyoBarboza likes this.
  19. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2018
    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    3,092
    To be honest I don't think what they've done with them (symbiomates) is all that different than what they once were. It's a lateral change at best. but then again, I don't think they were broken before
     
  20. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,734
    Likes Received:
    4,654
    Yes, as usual you are missing the important part, in the Fatality Lv 2 in spanish. In it, is where it says:
    The text in bold red? "Any result of 1 obtained in the dice by its owner", literal translation.
    A result of 1 in the dice ignores the +1.

    Just to be clear, have you translated EVERY rule from spanish to english?
     
    El tito Zylito likes this.