Either that or make it the Beserk for BS Attacks, with the restriction that no Link Bonuses are applied.
One of the things for me about Fatality L2 is that it makes linked SWC Spitfires or whatever really deadly on the Active Turn, which... they always already were? A BS 13 or 15 Spitfire in a five-person link was always wrecking face and don't get the impression that if they didn't have Fatality L2 you'd be winning those ARO rolls because you wouldn't. Reactively it's a lot less powerful, and nobody with Fatality L2 is carrying any kind of BS Mods or anything like that. Like people are saying "5 dice hitting on 21s with Fatality L2!!!!" well, if my opponent is rolling 5 dice hitting on 21s with or without Fatality L2, whatever they're shooting at is almost certainly fucked anyway. You might ask, well how do I deal with that? And that's a fair question, the exact same question asked re. loads of the most powerful rambo pieces over the years, Swiss Guard, Achilles, Hac Tao, Charontid etc. Now, is Fatality L2 undercosted? Probably yes, it seems to be free on the Khawarij which makes little sense. Is it powerful? Yes, it's definitely got a deadly impact! If it was costed appropriately would it break the game? Having used it and played against it, I don't feel that it would. Everyone on any board which I've played on with Fatality L2 has died before the game ended, and I doubt Sheeskin will get away with that either. You can take her, put her with a bunch of Nox, that sounds like a powerful and effective option which is absolutely dealable with. If they brought in the Fiday now, and Impersonation had never been in the game before, people would be like THIS IS FUCKING BULLSHIT WHAT THE FUCK?!?!? but because we've all played with an awareness of them for years we actually know that they're good but fine, you know, dealable with. The most powerful thing about Fatality L2 is probably how much it seems to pile psychological pressure on the opponent as normal bs mod tactics are not that effective against it. So yeah, I think that probably the best thing to do is play a few games against it, work out some ways to deal with it, and apply those in future. Just like everything else! In the meantime I too yes, hope for a costing adjustment but as has been said previously, Khawarij Murder Gangs have not suddenly become a massive issue, so I dunno if it really makes a huge difference in terms of the wider game.
That's not what I said! But you can take it like that if you want. I would recommend looking for a way to beat Fatality L2 rather than just throwing your hands up and saying it's too powerful (which, for cost, it probably slightly is, though not nearly as much as people are saying) and therefore it's a waste of time trying to overcome it (which is wrong) and it should just be fixed so you don't have to try. But then I am a Dark Souls fan so Maybe that explains it
It is not though, the power mechanics between making resilient units vulnerable to mass fire is a fundamental core of the entire system and melding with it creates a serious need for power re-balance. Go play a few games without the critical mechanics and see how Infinity really devolves to a rambo game of who gets the first turn, play a few games with the critical mechanism without bypassing ARM roll and see how high ARM units are becoming the auto favourite since even if they get hit by overriding criticals their survival is unchanged, sure critical could add to damage, but at +3 it is almost pointless to address the issue of high armour targets from common weapons (rifles) were the main risk for rambo units comes from, at +6 it is almost an auto fail for most light units but only inconveniences heavy units and at +9 it becomes a considerable threat to high armour units and auto fail for most other units, so why not just bypass the ARM roll and be done with since the whole idea is to be a considerable threat for high armour rambo units from light weapons and not a usually 50% chance of survival. All of the suggested changes for critical mechanics I have ever seen suggested have been suggested internally and tested and many more I have never seen been suggested here, have been suggested, considered, tested and not been approved for several reasons. At its core the critical mechanism introduces an uncertainty to the system, a low stat model (almost) always has a 5% chance of defending itself from an overwhelmingly superior model, that puts a risk in the system that needs to be considered, the auto wound creates the same risk for highly resilient models, if a model wants to get risk free attack on a model, they need to really work for that unopposed roll. Now is Fatality l2 so game breaking? the 10% chance of critical is nothing new to the game some link teams in ideal conditions have even more chances and (almost) nobody complains for models like Teucer and arguably stats over 20 are more beneficial since they eliminate a few dice rolls from your opponent simply be been there (for example a BS 23 eliminates any dice rolls of 1-3 from your opponents face to face roll before you even roll the dice on top of giving a 20% of scoring a critical hit). In my opinion, its a rule that feels bad instead of been bad.
People's problem was not the effectiveness of the top end, but the other extreme; it's the effectiveness of "5 dice hitting on 6s (4s or even 3s!)" being way better than it otherwise would have been, thanks to Fatality 2 (it grants a bigger bonus both proportionately and in real terms at low net BS than it grants at high net BS). Without Fatality 2, a net BS of 3, even with 5 dice, isn't worth even contemplating as you're basically guaranteed to lose the F2F. With Fatality 2 the odds swing quite a long way, from "atrocious" to "better than even" in most cases. It's also highlighted a major gripe with the core game mechanics, crits, once again. Some people just don't feel as it they're fair. As a friend on FB pointed out, "Things can be balanced but feel terrible, or they can be unbalanced but feel great." Crits on the whole are the former for a lot of people, while still being (just) tolerable. FAT2 looks to have pushed beyond that limit.
Yeah absolutely, there is a big damage boost that comes from that. But if you're suffering a -6 penalty because of ODD, then MSV2 will similarly boost your potential damage massively. You're unlikely to be able to inflict big penalties without ODD or whatever, so Fatality L2 is bringing up the effectiveness at the bottom in the same way. Of course, it should cost more to reflect this, but still, the issue is cost I think rather than lethality. Your point on how it feels, absolutely that is fair. If people think it feels off, and I think a lot of people do, then that's how they feel and it's not unreasonable, although it may not necessarily reflect the impact the mechanic has on the game, we do play the game because we enjoy it and if we don't it is pointless. So I think that is a reasonable argument.
Actually FAT2 works against root idea of crits being a "uncertanity factor". FAT2 users are even more immune to ARO crits than other units. When the active players knows he has 41% of just getting his way through (no matter the enemy crits) then it's really bad. (not to mention 2/3rd of FAT2 users are immune to hacking, and all FAT2 are >=2W)
Any troop who has Nimbus Grenades is less likely to get crit ARO'd from higher B ARO (suppression, links etc) as well, but nobody is bothered about that. In fact people think Nimbus Grenades are shit (personally I feel like the worst thing about Nimbus 'nades is that they're so unproliferated in the game) and so while you are technically correct (the best kind of correct!) I feel like the conclusion you draw that this is therefore purely negative is inconsistent with the impact of other things on the game in the past.
Not really, the 41% comes from dumping all dice on a single unit making the Fatality l2 unit vulnerable to everybody else if you present a reasonable defence many dice must be split in individual ARO lessening their effects, moreover more difficult to deal targets will create get more dice protecting the other reactive models, some models may even get unopposed shots to the Fatality l2 model. As I said Tariq is out for some time now and we have not seen a huge explosion on Haqqislam lists wining tournaments or a huge boost in Haqqislam entries, or Tariq, maybe the Sectorials will change it, maybe not, they are so fresh out that no wild data can be reasonably collected.
First of all, you’re mistaken me for someone whose doesn’t like the critical hit mechanic. This is wrong because I don’t mind the critical hit rule but most importantly, critical hits have always been something that COULD just happen but no one would actually go out and defeat an unfavourable opponent hoping they could rely on crits alone, that would be a failing strategy. FAT, however, destroys this perspective. Suddenly you’re finding yourself engaging unit you should have no business engaging because all of the sudden you can now DEPEND on critting your opponent to death, where as before a critical hit would just be a lucky side effect that could happen during your engagement, not a thing you relied upon happening. If you took a linked Wildcat Spitfire and shot at my Cutter in Cover from over 24”, I would laugh a bit and respond “sure thing man, go ahead!” Now do the same with a linked Tarik and I’d start to sweat. Math backs this up also, so it’s not something you can brush away with “well, it just feels bad”. Quite frankly this is ridiculous.
In fact, @HellLois please can we have more profiles with Nimbus Grenades? Nomad and Haqq ones specifically? Please? Pretty please with a cherry on top?
Sure, but msv2 costs points and has a workaround in the form of eclipse grenades, white noise, and albedo. Fatality L2 is free, near as I can tell.
@Zewrath I would not call a mere 5% increase reliable, I can make your Cutter sweat easier and more efficiently (and cheaper) with Intruders shooting through smoke than using such a link, moreover why on earth is the Cutter unsupported and the Tariq link only sees one lone Cutter without any other ARO pieces needing to split dice?
Mayby because Tarik sliced the pie and killed other AROs, they are pathetic AROs (single fusilier in long range), or Haqq just smoked other AROs ? To just call a few options.
If it was being handed out for free it tells me that the impetus to put it into the game was wrongheaded from the start.
Potentially yes, but a vast expenditure of orders and careful planning does not equate the reckless superiority attributed to Fatality l2, on the counter argument why should the pie even been sliceable? maybe the defence is good enouph Tariq cannot attack the Cutter without facing 1-2 additional ARO. Fatality L2 works as an inferior "Stats over 20 mechanic", specifically 21, and there are units that can achieve such high BS (and higher) in the game.
