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FAQ Ruling on Forward Observe in fireteams appears to be nonsensical

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Hecaton, May 16, 2019.

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  1. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    It’s also worth noting that it’s been mentioned several times by members of the editing team that constructive criticism presented in a courteous manner is noted and taken under consideration, while criticism for criticism’s sake presented in a rude manner (especially from a small cadre of critics again and again) is more often dismissed out of hand. As such, the “spicyness” of the thread title might be fun or what have you for some, but it’s more likely than not to be counterproductive to the stated end goal.
     
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  2. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    It’s worth noting that if our writing/presentation keeps eliciting the same response time and again, the weak point may not lie with our audience.
     
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  3. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Well-Known Member

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    OTOH, internet users generally cannot into receiving feedback in general. It's always either replied to as "what are you whining / throwing a tantrum about?!" or "stop attacking me!!!". Very rarely I see one person give legitimate advice / concern / constructive critique and be received neutrally. It's mostly attack or defense.
     
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  4. Postmortem

    Postmortem Kazak Arachnophile

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    @Nuada Airgetlam It’s interesting to think about what the implications of that have been culturally (if we agree with you, of course).

    Apologies to the thread for taking this off track. Back to our regularly scheduled arguing, tantrums, and finger-pointing!
     
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  5. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    Not wrong... I think part of it is the disconnect with how feedback is delivered and received in real life versus the internet. In real life, I can see the impact as I deliver the feedback, and can work on all the aspects of my delivery, as well as likely having an idea of what the timeline is for processing and acting on it. On the internet? I’m stripped down to just my words, with maybe a bit of tone, and beyond not being able to see how it’s received, there’s also usually a time lag/gap in receipt, and many times no idea what a timeline might look like.
     
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  6. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a community that dislikes it's opinions challenged is unhappy with the person who challenges them... it's hardly something new. The fact people keep resorting to my tone being the problem rather than my arguments is telling. But it's not all that surprising in an online format. How often is my tonal change in response to provocation as well? Yet not one of you has a problem with members calling others motivations dishonest.

    The double standards here are astounding, but not surprising. It's not like this is a classroom where there are punishments for disrespect. I don't think it's fair to attack others for their attitude without looking at everyone equally.
    Exactly. I understand many of you here want to share your opinions on how you've chosen to play the rules. But you instead tell others how it is played and that the rules back it up. Those are two different things. I also understand it's constructive so that you have a playable game. I've recognized this need to find a playable solution, acknowledged it, and admitted to doing the same. But there is more to deal with beyond that.

    I find something else JUST AS constructive. I think it's constructive to have a game new players can understand and teach others. Without having to come here and ask/find ruling upon ruling. Or make it up as they go along. I'm not surprised in the least you don't seem to value that the same, or find it as constructive. You've all moved past this stage for the most part.

    Sure, Infinity is surviving just fine for players who spend a disproportionate amount of time studying rulings before and during games. Or places with Vets to hold players hands throughout. And for people who buy minis but don't play. But I feel confident in saying experts in the game rules are going to dwindle over time rather than grow. The game has died in several provinces here in Canada. You can't find a single store in the Maritimes that sells Infinity products anymore. You can order them with conditions, but no store presence means difficulty in finding new customers/players.

    With complex game play Infinity needs clear and easy to follow rules more than many other games. There is less room for error, yet errors are accepted within this forum to a degree I've never seen before in my entire life. This kind of broken code wouldn't be tolerated in PC games. I assume it's tolerated in Infinity because people can find there own solutions. Personally, I don't think that makes the errors any more acceptable.
    Parsing the rules is only frustrating when the results are discussed here. You're more concerned with playing, and that is your right. But I don't think it's too much to ask for what @Daniel Darko is asking.

    I'm glad you value possible rewordings more but I don't find them as valuable. They do nothing to alter the current situation. Who's going to care about better worded rules if no one thinks the rules need to change. The devs are likely not going to follow scattered forum suggestions if they ever decide to change anyway.

    Of course, I will never garner enough support here to effect real change because I'm not one to 'play the game' needed to do so. That's one of my flaws. One of my strengths, is recognizing errors and issues in complex systems. So I'll do my part and point those out. Maybe someday, someone more charismatic and driven will take things forward.
     
  7. Daniel Darko

    Daniel Darko Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I have! And I addressed it. But I prefer PM.

    Talking too much about behaviour and assumptions derails the thread in my experience and that does not help - especially, if you would like to continue the rules-discussion and rules-analyses, which I do. :no_mouth:
     
  8. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    If you think everyone here is one giant circle jerk about how great the rules are, you either haven't been around very long, view yourself as special, or are intentionally blind.

    Almost every single poster who has responded to you has, in the past, criticised one rule or another. Myself included. Most of them can do it without getting accused of poor tone or being shouted down.

    When people call out tone and they're missing your point. Most people who want their message to be heard reflect on that and adjust, because its in your best interest to be understood without miscommunication or ill will. When you instead try point out hypocrisy or claim that its the community trying to stamp out dissenting voices, you only reinforce a perception that you're here for ego reasons or to be right, rather than your stated case of formenting debate.
     
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  9. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I kindly pointed out several times the point has been made, why the degradation of the conversation keeps going I do not know, but I think I need to stop it now.
     
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