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Experiences with the Druze

Discussion in 'Druze Bayram Security' started by theGricks, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    Good morning/afternoon/evening!

    I have about 5-7 games now under my belt with Druze and wanted to just discuss my experiences and how other people are finding this force. I will start with my personal thoughts and feelings on the force as a whole, and where I find their key weaknesses, and then discuss a few core units that seem to be running very well.

    Personal thoughts and feelings on the Druze Bayram Security:
    So far my games have been landslide victories against multiple opponents and factions. The factions I have faced so far are as follows: Steel Phalanx, ISS, Bakunin, and Onyx. I am finding that regardless of the opponent, my tactics and strategies actually all remain fairly similar. I want to isolate and eliminate Optical camo threats with the Brawler MSV sniper, eliminate enemy sniper nests or long range threats with the Druze HMG, drop repeaters near enemy link teams and mark for Smart Missiles to disrupt the links. The Smart Missile linked with the Druze has become invaluable in eliminating strong targets due to its AOE AP+DA ammunition. In the reactive turn I make sure it has MML2 on it so its firing twice at BS18 at long range.
    I find the faction runs best when the Robots do the heavy lifting. Peacemakers advance the board and draw fire, Pathfinders run up to provide mobile and fast repeater coverage, and the SML eliminates strong threats. While this happens Hunzakuts drop repeater nets, defenses (mines), and push buttons. The druze core advances slowly. The Brawler Haris runs as an ARO threat. The MSV2 brawler sniper has become a real lethal player in almost every game due to her range, ARM5 in cover, BS12, and MSV2.
    DBS is weird in that the bots are fast and push the enemy front line very quickly, but the Druze and Brawlers only slowly advance to push the friendly front line. In all five to six games my Druze made it as far as midfield twice. I simply had them hold and defend objectives with the Hunzukuts while the opponent dealt with the bots. If you know how best to leverage your bots, your Core team will actually have very little work to do besides hacking and launching smart missiles.

    Strengths?
    Hard hitting Core Link. Fatality L1 has come into effect multiple times, and having a core link with a Smart Missile Bot on ARO is terrifying.
    Bots, so many bots. I find this a great strength because they can be buffed. A MML2 Peacemaker is terrifying, a B2 Heavy Flamethrower Auxilia sitting around a corner from an objective, or just a simply MML2 Smart Missile Direct fire robot.
    Hunzukuts. These 18 point swiss army knives do a LOT of work. They lay the defensive ground work with mines, they push buttons, they mark targets, they set up the repeater network, and in close range can eliminate other infiltrators due to their light shotgun OR rifle. Their WIP14 is huge for their FO abilities making them reliable offensive targeters or button pushers.
    Druze and their X-Visors. Fatality L1 and X-Visor is a great combination. If firing off pitchers beyond the 16", or shooting up to 40" with a DMG14 SMR, or simply Speculative Firing a Grenade Launcher, the X-Visor in a link team is always great. Fatality as well has come into play multiple times for me, and even just that 1 extra dmg has made my opponents think. With minimum primary weapon dmg of 14 in the unit, and Viral Pistols all at DMG13, its rough.

    Weaknesses?
    The bots come with an obvious weakness, hackers. My list runs a KHD, Hacker, and AHD so it has moderate hacker defense, and the bots all have repeaters, but they are weak to enemy AHD and HD.
    Willpower is very low. WIP 12 doctors are a gamble, luckily for objectives this is somewhat off set by WIP 14 Hunzukuts.
    Lack of surprises. While Bashi's are very good, they are the only AD troop and have to be determined at the beginning of the game. So if you want to make sure to get them where they need to be, you have to have them as a hold off model. Saito is very good, but very expensive in an already slightly expensive faction, and Hunzukuts are your only Camo troopers.You have no Holoprojectors starting out, and no other TO. For the most part in DBS what you see is what you get.
    No rambo unit. While I do not personally find this a weakness, I have seen it pop up a few times in discussion. They do not have any one single unit that can really just rampage down the board eliminating threats. The Anaconda or Scarface could fall into this category, but they are large, hard to maneuver, and expensive.

    These are all my personal findings, and wanted to know how other peoples experiences so far are.
     
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  2. momo234

    momo234 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent write up! I don't plan on going Druze any time soon, but I think anyone who is should read this. This relatively short post is packed with useful info, and I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the strengths/weaknesses.

    Hope your good luck with the continues!
     
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  3. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    So far I've only had 1 game, but it did what I wanted them to. I love the Clipper in a 5 man link. Being able to give it Marksman L2 to ignore cover with all the other benefits makes it a solid point piece. I was able to 1 shot an Iguana, and an Intruder giving me a solid lead in firepower. I had to spend a couple orders drawing out the intruder with a pathfinder, but when is was finally revealed it died in 1 shot.

    Pros: If you like remotes you'll love these guys. There is an EVO tax in list building but its worth it when even your 8 pt cheerleader remotes have B2 flashpulse on AROs.

    Cons: When playing against Nomads, expect your remotes to get isolated quickly. Even KHD are scared of Interventors. I had both peacemakers isolated early because of well placed Morans with repeaters. They still held the line, but Auxbots are best used a sacrificial offensive pieces. I can see Camo heavy lists being a pain. The lack of MSV will be a problem. 1 Sniper is not enough, and Arslan is a not that great.I'm expecting to have to use Senson/Sat-Lock and Grenade launchers to deal with some Camo.

    One comment on your review above. The Auxbots don't get B2 with overclock. They don't have repeaters, only the Peacemakers do. To my knowledge the overclock doesn't carry over via G:Syncronized.
     
  4. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    From ghost on the wiki:
    I'm loving the druze. I have to try the msv2 sniper more often, HB taught me to work around having no msv2 and I figured unless I took multiple opponents would circumvent the lane in the reactive turn, but everyone is loving it. I'll give it a shot.

    I dont know if im qualified but Ive been thinking of building a tactica for DBS. Always wanted to make one and the druze are a smaller sectorial and Ive gotten quite a few games with them now.
     
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  5. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    That's good to know.

    One pet peeve with some of the rules in Infinity is you have to know where to look. I would have put that piece of info under hacking programs. A couple other rules too look up when playing DBS. Given the number of options available to the faction, the Pathfinder remotes are going to be a central part of the army. Which is also why they gave them AVA3.
    • Evo Hacker let you ignore the -6 on Sat-lock (See EVO)
    • Sat-lock makes speculative fire much stronger (See sat-lock & speculative fire)
    • Sensor give +6 on Discover (See sensor)
    • FO have Flash Pulse which is better ARO than a combi from 16-24 (see FO)
    • EVO hacker can Overclock (see Evo)
      • this boosts the following in DBS
        • Pathfider
        • Peacemaker with Auxbot
        • Fugazi (flashpulse)
        • Some Kameel
    • If starting second EVO hacker may spend a command token to start with a support ware up. AKA overclock (See EVO).
    • See Sensor:Triangulated Fire.
     
  6. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, DBS in general doesnt seem like a beginner friendly faction. Between the elitness of their army and the rules interaction (e.g. fireteam sixth sense + repeater range, overclock on auxbot, guided and sat lock as mentioned) theyve got a a decent learning curve. Not terrible, but I'd never give this sectorial to someone getting their feet wet.

    That said, i love it. Its almost picture perfect tp what I wanted. Hoping they eventually get a heavy infantry, but I'm not holding my breath. I'd think HI is a bit too costly for a merc group so it would probably be low ava and low fluffy rules, probably added bloat to make it less optimized. Im thinking a zuyong with booty instead of kinemetaka and vetran
     
  7. the huanglong

    the huanglong Well-Known Member

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    I'm still in awe at specialist Saito. I would pay so many more points to get him in JSA. Is there any other TO infiltrating specialist with smoke grenades in the game?

    Ninjas and Druze, bad news (for your enemies).
     
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  8. Phayton

    Phayton Active Member

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    I have played 2 games with my Druze – unfortunately both gone nehhhhh...
    In both games Saito did nothing but die (once against a Template weapon from a Yu Jing HI and once he get killed in CC by a Tikbalang :unamused:)
    Arslan performed surprisingly well (killed a Su Jian with his AP Multi). Any tips are welcome!

    As a vanilla Aleph player I will probably have to adjust my game style a little bit with Druze.
     
  9. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    Maybe use Saito more to bully weak targets instead of destroying the Rambo's. -> go after the order pool.
    He doesn't have nwi or a second wound so he is pretty fragile, and while a EXP CCW is pretty good it's not a Mono CCW like Kitsune is carrying, so big and beefy targets don't auto die to it.
     
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  10. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    Saito is an assassin like the Fidays. He hits hard but is not survivable. You want him to pick his targets and make those targets weak. He is PH13 EXP so its not a huge hit against HI or TAG's, but it will ruin a skirmishers day.

    Arslan gets a lot of side glances here I see. Hes been amazing for me and I include him in every list. He has an answer to any firefight.
     
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  11. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    Based on the games I've played I feel a primary mechanic behind Druze that is essential to exploit when building your list is fireteam member redundancy and reinforcing the core fireteam during a match.

    There is a lot more mechanics going on with the Druze, but it is unique among factions in having such diversity in a core Fireteam. The units that can fill the main team are a total of 3 completely different unit types, and two characters that total 24 different profiles.

    Many of these units are useful on their own outside of a fireteam. What that means is, during list design, that you can build in redundancy to reinforce the link as it takes losses during the match without sacrificing a roster spot to a unit who's sole role is to do only that. Instead these potential link members can contribute through hacking, engineering, or doctoring etc before they are called upon to reinforce the fireteam.

    While Druze fireteams are typically not going to be pushing into enemy territory very far, they are still your firebase for area denial and dropping ARO threats to your scoring. Keeping it at full strength provides many benefits, the most important obviously being the BS bonus.

    Most other faction's fireteams typically do not have the luxury of bringing additional units to reinforce a core fire team as it takes losses due to unit AVA, cost, or opportunity cost. DBS has this mechanic built in efficiently.

    Most of the lists I am writing contain 7 potential core fireteam members in the same battlegroup. This provides flexibility for building the link at deployment based on the knowledge of what threats you may be likely to face, or to directly counter deploy your opponent. Often the redundant units can form a fireteam: duo for additional order efficiency.

    These units can fill in the link as its takes losses and with that redundancy comes some unconventional tactical options. For instance, my opponent in my last game moved his 5 Bolt fire team in front of my linked Clipper. The link leader with spitfire moved to an optimal position to shoot the Clipper, but the fireteam's movement exposed a supporting unit in the link in order to maintain coherency.

    I felt like I was going to lose the roll (it was just under a 50% chance the Bolt would kill it) but knowing I had redundancy to rebuild the link back up to full strength, it was an easy decision for me to sacrifice the Clipper by shooting the supporting fireteam member knowing that he couldn't reinforce later on like I could. As the game progressed I enjoyed my BS 15 shots, while his fireteam couldn't directly compete any longer.

    Some units may not even want to be in the core fireteam at the beginning of the game, take the fantastically cheap Brawler AHD profile as an example. This unit (and other hackers) can be a vulnerability in the link because of DBS' inherent repeater net exposure.

    Even with the SSL2 bonus, killer hackers will exploit your REMs with repeaters (like maybe that Peacemaker you deployed halfway up the field) nuke your linked hacker, and suddenly your Clipper or MSV-2 sniper is losing a +3 BS bonus when your opponent engages it. These units can be perfect to include separate from the link only to come into it later on once you have established hacker dominance and you've lost someone. Other times though you will want them in the link because of SSL2 and you will have that flexibility at deployment with redundant members.

    Even if If your list is top heavy, just only adding a 6th potential fireteam member can help maintain your firebase. Gromoz is probably the best choice for redundancy as she can take the place of a fallen Druze in the Clipper link for cheaper than an additional Druze. Typically though I think the full core and a fireteam duo that can fill in the core in battlegroup one is a solid start to any DBS list.
     
    #11 jfunkd, Jan 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  12. Phayton

    Phayton Active Member

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    Shooting 2 Pitchers with a Druze hacker up to 24" on 15s is also really nice.
     
  13. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    About that - do Druze hackers have X-Visors?... They're not listed on the PDF, they're not mentioned in Army, BUT after printing the army list Druze with Killer Hacking Device has X-Visor listed.
    So - what's with that?


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  14. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose Sand Cats Tactical Security LLC

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    Dammit, @theGricks ! I was just convincing myself not to start a Druze Sectorial (even though I have more than enought minis to do so); and you come and tell me they are as fun as I thought they would be!

    I'll bump my Druze Sectorial up in my painting cue.
     
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  15. Cannon Fodder

    Cannon Fodder Well-Known Member

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    I specifically tried a tactic where I had my 5 man Druze link get tailed by a duo. This let me reinforce my main link when there was a loss. The tactic works surprising well. I came in second in a 200 point tournament, I lost the last game due to a Lucky V:Dogged plasma equipped unidrone in the hands of an decent player. The MML2 Clipper (ML) is strong point model. The only time it ever had any issues was against a TR HMG remote. Moving forward I think my default core will be Clipper ML, Brawler Eng, Druze Killer Hacker, Druze LGL, Druze HMG or Marksman. Followed by a duo of Gromoz & Druze LT.

    Given this list I have the following options
    • Gromoz gives Clipper MML2
    • Recreate the link after a loss keeping 5 man fireteam.
    • Engineer can repair the Clipper. The clipper also has G:Sync for 2 levels of unconscious. The clipper can also be used as blocking terrain if it gets hit since remotes don't go prone when unconscious.
    • LGL to block LOS for TR remotes.
    • The Druze Lt in is in the second battle group making it easier to protect, but close enough to the front to be useful if needed.

    I'm not sure if I should keep the Druze HMG. Its 1.5 SWC, and I rarely use it. The only time I ever contemplate using it was to take out a TR HMG. I find my my opponents usually gives the remote MML2 which makes it unpredictable for the Druze HMG to go F2F. I usually try to get the Clipper in the sweet spot (32-40) in order to get the +6 BS on the TR remote. But so far the last 3 times I tried this the extra Burst won out. Which is why I think my default tactic vs TR remotes is going to be smoke and evade with my LGL. I think I'll use the x-visor MarksmanR instead of the HMG. I lose 1B and +3BS in the 24-32 band, but 1.5 SWC can be better spent elsewhere. Having it just walk around and follow the Clipper is a bit of a waste.

    The other thing I'm looking at is, Do I keep the KHD in the main link. Hacker in links can be there weakest point which is why I keep Gromoz in the backup duo. I like fact the KHD gets SSL2 just in case my opponent tries to surprise attack with a hacker. Most won't try going after Gromoz in the second link if there is a KHD nearby. Normal tactics are to try and remove the biggest hacking threat first before going after the other hackers. Given the amount of repeaters on the table it not a bad assumption.
     
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  16. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose Sand Cats Tactical Security LLC

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    I'm considering a 2 Druze (Arslan + KHD) + 3 Brawler (HRL + Doctor + AHD) they are escorted by a Kameel (8pt one) and 2 TAGs (Anaconda and Scarface and Cordelia). With Saito Togan to have an infiltrating Specialist.

    I'll test it tomorrow.
     
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  17. KedzioR_vo

    KedzioR_vo Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I'm weird, quoting myself :P
    After a quick action from @Koni ARMY was updated and it works now well - there are no X-Visors in Hackers equipment, not in ARMY online, not in PDFs of armylists et cetera :)


    PozdRawiam / Greetings
     
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  18. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I find my linked clipper is an aro piece or for digging enemy units out via spotlight/forward observer then Smart missiles. My Druze HMG is almost always point until the 0-16 spot then others take over. I have yet to have a hacker be a true weak point in the fireteam. If there is a camo marker, or repeater then my KHD is the team lead for either going around corners and facing the camo, or just staying point for the time.
     
  19. Phayton

    Phayton Active Member

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    Tell us how it was!
     
  20. Danger Rose

    Danger Rose Sand Cats Tactical Security LLC

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    It was interesting. We both played Limited Insertion, 300pts Quadrant Control. I played against Yu Jing for the first time (IS, to be precise. We only had a JSA player, so I never had the chance to truly face the State-Empire until yesterday). A Crane Agent with a Multi-Rifle wrecked my Scarface, but the Anaconda and HRL Brawler kept things even and we ended in a tie.

    My favorite part was when I decided to spend an order to doctor the HRL, and panicked when I noticed the Doctor had PanOceanic WIP. I rolled a 16 and everyone rolled on the floor laughing. I was also welcomed to the world of "them mere mortals" who don't have Doctor Plus.

    All in all, the link team did its job, but I got very unlucky rolls with Scarface, and lost one of my fangs too early on. Had Scarface survived, I might have been able to dominate more quadrants and win.

    I never had a chance to use Arslan, though. His mission became dominating the quadrant Cordelia couldn't hold on her own. So while he and his Link Team secured a tie, he never actually got to use all his nifty little skills
     
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