From what I gather Exile just cancels a Fireteam without any way to prevent it: As a side effect, the Fireteam is cancelled, even if the target was not the Team Leader, so the player must remove the correspondent Team Leader Marker from the game table. Number 2 would never kick in: The player can only activate this Special Skill when the Team Leader of his Fireteam enters the Isolated state or any Nullstate. I assume this is correct. However, does this mean that Exile does not cancel the Fireteam if used on the Team Leader in a Fireteam with Number 2 in it?
yes, number 2 never triggers if you hit the non leader. If you hit the leader then it probably does based on RAW
Number 2 never triggers because even if the team leader gets exiled the fireteam does not exist anymore. The fireteam does not break because the team leader enters Isolate state, it breaks because it is a side effect of Exile so it is unavoidable.
It states as a Side effect of, Ie as a restatement of the effect of the Isolated state on a link team. That is certainly the argument that has always been made with regard to the exile program and veteran, as far as I am aware it has been an arguement with no resolution, it was even discussed to that effect on mayacast. http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/49478-comms-breakdown-when-exactly/ http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/49478-comms-breakdown-when-exactly/ There are at least 2 threads where the direct opposite has been stated relative to the 1 previous where it has been stated to be an additional effect. and those threads are more recent. http://infinitytheforums.com/forum/topic/45680-exile-vs-veteran-link-teams/
It would not cancel the link team if the exiled person was not the link leader if the side effect was purely because of isolation. The side effect of cancelling the link team is because of the Exile, not the isolation. Essentially the target enters isolated state, fireteam gets cancelled, Number 2 cannot trigger because there is no fireteam to be the link leader of. If it was for example Oblivion it would be an entire different story, Number 2 would trigger, veterans and Morats would laugh.
Toms a cb employee.... Im just pointing out that there seems to be two different opinions and no consensus on the question.
Just to be clear, you guys all agree that Exile doesn't care about the Number 2 skill if it targets anyone besides the Fireteam Leader. The only disagreement here is whether or not hitting the Leader with Exile would still break a Fireteam that also had the Number 2 skill. As a general rule, managing to actually hit the leader with anything is worse for the fireteam's existence than one of the other non-leader members.
The base problem here, as I see it, is the use of the words "side effect." If a fireteam member who is not the leader is isolated, it does not cancel the whole fireteam. If a fireteam member who is not the leader is exiled, it DOES cancel the whole fireteam. Obviously this effect is a separate effect of Exile, and is not predicated entirely on the Isolated state, or else you would only be able to cancel the fireteam by Exiling the leader, just like with other sources of the Isolated state. The "side effect" wording is simply poor phrasing. (Are we still doing phrasing?) If you drop the "side effect" wording and simply read it as "an additional effect" (which is strongly implied by it being a separate bullet point in the first place) it all becomes much clearer. As a result, Veteran would prevent the Isolation but not the breaking of the Fireteam. This looks, to me, like another of those translation artifacts.
yes, changing the wording would solve the issue. But realistically it could be a tautology as much as a translation issue, and that seems to be the opinion in 3 out of 4 threads on this that ive now read.
Changing the wording simplifies it. The fact that the rules as written don't make any sense if you take "side effect" to be completely literal and meaningful implies that you should not do that thing.
"Como Efecto añadido" - "As an added effect" It's almost certainly a translation issue given this is the spanish, and I'm sure in at least one of those threads you linked I've brought up the exact same thing before (edit: Turns out not those specific ones). Although I think people still tried to claim it was an added effect of isolated, not the skill, so it doesn't entirely resolve the matter.
Yup. This came up last time this issue was discussed. In any case, "side effect" should be enough, because a "side effect" does not require the primary effect to take place for it to work the way the word is used in, say, pharmacology.
But shouldn't that work like following: - Leader gets isolated, Number 2 becames link leader, and then link is broken due to rules of Exile. ?
Well it works kinda like that. Model gets isolated (regardless of who they are), Fireteam gets cancelled, Number 2 never kicks in (if it was possible to kick in).
