Yeah, I enjoyed straddling the tech line as Haqq. Almost no Combi-rifles to speak of but some higher tech HI and weapons here and there to pepper in meant engineers didn't need to cover so much ground.
Some tactically relevant questions: 1. Can you fit more than one Wu Ming under the template? -> 2: 30% chance of 1+, 3: 42% chance of 1+, 4: 51% chance of 1+ 2. Can the Wu Ming dodge sufficiently to reduce the number of targets under the template? 3. Does Guts Rolls or Dodge force Wu Ming sufficiently out of position that you can shoot at them with the Druze Sniper, Riot Grrl Missile, or Tanko Missile? Does it force the Wu Ming out of cover? Does it force one of the BSG Wu Ming to that position so they can't even shoot back? Can you force them to break the link this way? Maybe none of those questions get a yes answer and it isn't worth it. I can see it being very worth it if one or two of those questions get a "yes", though. Maybe even worth it enough to take the 10% chance of shooting at 24-48" range band.
Valid points, although with kinematika it’s hard to keep Wu Ming under the template. HI fireteams are probably the best target for the E/M LGL.
I've had TAGs and HI Pain Trains isolated by jammers or e/m spec-fire and have never lost a game because of it. If you know you're up against any of these things, (which is never a surprise), all it takes is a little planning. Play under the assumption something (your lynch-pin) will get isolated. At least. Then deal with it. BTS rocks and engineers are life-savers. Save your command Tokens and use them to mitigate the damage. More than anything, play the mission. I see so many players lose games because something bad happens and they lose their cool. Solely seeking retaliation is rarely the appropriate solution to model loss. Oh, I almost forgot. Mutts aren't broken. (And neither is E/M).
Sooo... someone's trying to say, that Druze have something overpowered? And it should be changed?... Really? :D Something that unpredictable as grenade launcher? One look at dice calculator - Druze full linked E/M LGL has 17,85% of Disabling Marut, when shooting in 0 range band. That's not so good with only 1 dice. And they will have to get closer to enemy, and they're slow. There are ways to make it harder for them ;) Bayram isn't the best of armies. Their E/M LGL is one of FEW nice things in this sectorial. Only people really keen on the fluff and character of their armies play Druze. Like me. That army has a very limited choice of units, very limited strategies, and need something interesting. Linked SML, linked E/M LGL, mixed fireteams - these are those things. And still if you let your enemy grenade few of your troops with one shot, than maybe you've deployed badly? PozdRawiam / Greetings
Oh right - @Zewrath has trouble dealing with challenges. Poor guy can't handle less balance than Chess or Go. Thing is, the guy really prefers Checkers. Now there's a real (solved) game! @KedzioR_vo Agreed. Druze, if anything, are one of the weaker sectorials. But some players, (like the previously mentioned troll), just can't handle the anything that might put them at risk of losing. Heaven forbid their (supposed) dominance over a local gaming scene be challenged.
Is an E/M LGL in a full Fireteam Core good? Yes. OP? Arguably not. There are ways to deal with it, and every army has a few of them.
No, the argument really is against linked E/M GL, not Druze in general. It is worse with Emily on Starco. Yes, Druze in general is a bit of a miss. The army really lacks... something. But I do not agree that a tatic that has pretty much no counterplay is ever fun to play against, especially if the enemy gets lucky.
Counterplay: Deploy better Utilize proper ARO strategy Take appropriate list choices Go first when you can, and target key threats Score Objective Points as early as possible There’s 5 to get you started. I’m sure there’s more, but I get tired of these baseless complaints.
As one who’s going to be using Druze more in my Ikari, I’m not thinking at all about Spec fire with the E/M LGL. To me it’s going to be about Direct Fire! I want that +1 Burst, at 0 for medium range, +3 link. To me that’s far more dangerous than 1 shot at -6, +3 team, 0 for range or even +3 for range. Oh and deny cover for the BTS as well.
I'm surprised this thread isn't really covering the more egregious scenario, which is where targeted state takes the -6 away.
Probably because it's not worth it. It takes using an order to Forward Observe or Sat-Lock. Then you can shoot the Spec Fire. Also FO has 0 or -3 mods for range, then cover and anything else. Sat-Lock is -6 to do unless you have a EVO REM. If you have a secret objective to FO then go for it! Otherwise I'm not sure it's worth it. Unfortunately there's a lot of stars that need to align to make it happen. Edit: forgot to mention that since spec fire is a full order. That also adds to the complication and can add orders because you might move one order, next order spec fire.
Deploy Better? Against a Weapon that needs no LoF? Use better ARO? Against a Weapon that needs no LoF? Solution 3: It would be better if there is no really F2F beceause Spec fire isn't really a skill thing. Shooter trys to hit blindly, and the defense model trys to dodge. -3 for dodge? Sure! But f2f? Dont see why... Maybe I am the bad luck brian that lost his Lt, TAG; or other expensive shit against this nobrainer fuck in every game I had it against me... To be clear: I have no Problem with EM or Speculative Shooting overall, but in my eyes the combination of X-Visor, LGL, EM Grenades + Link is too much. And if you use the Calculator correctly the chance of a Druze in a 5 man team to disalbe a Maruts via Spec Fire is 33,5% that means you need 3 orders to take out the heaviest things. (Maruts, Avatars etc.) The point is that this is the most annoying thing actually, beceause the defender has a) no choice - hey you can dodge with -3! Yay! b) the attacker has no risk - Oh i only lose an order, to bad I had 5 left and 4 in the other combat Group, lets try again to disable your TAG and Isolate your engineer... I have got crushed by good players, and sometimes I win against them. I played on many tournaments, and I see myself as an experienced player. It is not that this rule is super OP, but it is a fun killer. As I say, the user of EM LGL doesnt need to move good, doesn't take any risk, and overall it is a one shot ammunition type, against everything (except for veterans). I also won games against people who used this, but this wasn't games that i remind at very fun. It was "oh I use my guided speculative dumbfuck shit against everything with value that you have, beceause I have not the brain capacity to play this game. I trie to disable all your good models and than try to rid of what is left..." Good thing he was stupid, and i used my surviving troops well enough to get him down and win the game...
So, basically, you're salty af about a mechanic that; 1. Doesn't kill things 2. On average (at best) costs 3 full orders to go off (In an ideal range) 3. Can't target units in closed buildings 4. Allows a dodge and save 5. Is admittedly not OP 6. Requires an FO or Triangulation for increased effectiveness (These cost points and use orders) 7. To be effective in the first place, requires an swc cost in an expensive, slow, unpopular, fireteam? You claim to be experienced ... Have you discovered the ability to deploy in a building or at range from a piece you may be fearful of? Yes. If you have deployed properly, (see above), part of that means you are threatening Objective Points and Power Pieces with your own specialists and Power Pieces. These need to be defended. Sometimes that means holed up in a secure building. Secure the way to that building (or any other target) with powerful AROs and HD pieces. If you let your opponent run rampant, you're going to probably feel less in control. This is likely what is leading you to think losing is stupid, but hey, maybe you're just a sour person? Pieces are lost in Infinity, that is the game. The fact is, pieces hit by E/M can still be used - only with reduced effectiveness. Much better than death imo. This is so wrong on so many levels. If you can explain how the guided mechanic takes no brainpower to set up, I would be very curious. Thing is, this has been a pretty frequent point of discussion for quite a while. The common consensus is that it is often too inefficient, with too low a return, to be worthwhile. Not to mention the difficulty of pulling it off, even when you tailor a list around the mechanic. To me, it sounds like you're real salty about something you don't understand. That's ok, because a lot of people fear what they don't understand. You probably don't want my advice, but feel free to PM me if you would like to better understand how to play against spec-fire lists or Druze specifically. Before you do this though, I need you to fix that attitude. This last post of yours was one of the more childish displays I've seen in quite a while.
Seeing as how you can set tables up yourself, change that. The community at large has gradually been shifting towards the use of more special terrain. If you think this is needed, or just want to give it a shot, advocate for more. For the record, most tables I play on don’t either, (or have few options), but my previous statements all still hold true. Another thing to note, is that e/m templates only can hit only level, so split up teams across multiple floors of a building. Even if part of your team is merely in the building, and others are around the building, you are much safer. You can easily deploy so one unit is effected at a time, max. This means, on average, you might need to spend 4-6 full orders to isolate 2 members of a link. Terrible play in my book. From the wiki (Template Weapons and Equipment): “The presence of scenery items on the game table can change a Template's Area of Effect as shown in the graphic examples. Each Template has a Blast Focus to determine if nearby scenery protects a trooper from the Template's effects. If LoF can be drawn from the Blast Focus to the trooper, then that trooper is affected by the Template. However, if the LoF cannot be drawn due to the presence of a piece of scenery, then the trooper is considered to be in Total Cover and is not affected by the Template. The Blast Focus is at the center of the Circular Template and at the narrow end of the Teardrop Templates. The Blast Focus can only draw LoF inside the Area of Effect of the Template.” From my own experience, which I believe many other DBS players might agree with, the e/m lol is more of an opportunity weapon than anything. It’s rare to see a game plan centered around it, but proves itself to be an effective deterrent. (Mainly out of anecdotal fear). Another interesting way to defend against this is deploy an impersonator near your fire team (or any other target you don’t want hit). The template can’t go down on a friendly unit, and thus, all is averted. Note: I know not all armies don’t have impersonating units, but I believe the same tactics can be used with an HVT or Xenotech, depending on the mission. Personally, I’ve never really had to resort to this last one, but I think it’s a pretty solid play for a faction like HB, who can bring so many.
