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Elephant in the room...

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by MikeTheScrivener, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    Lady Numiria and Nuada Airgetlam like this.
  2. Teslarod

    Teslarod The Squeeze has not been Sqouze

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    When I started playing PanO's their shiny stuff was BS15 high tech dudes (MSV3, TO but also Rem:Pres TAGs with ARM10/HRMC, Superjump/C+) with great secondary pieces (Nisse HMG, Hexa Sniper)
    Pretty much *BS Attack Solutions Inc*.

    We got a lot better at not being forced to solve our Problems with BS Attacks since then.
    Thanks Obam... Varuna!
     
  3. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    People still use that meme I see. We might have Trump version of that in the coming years. Maybe even dueling memes between the two.
     
  4. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaallllllllyyyyyyyy want to see what sort of CC monsters we get if any. GIMMIE STATS
     
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  5. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Here's my Tin foil hat theory:

    PanO is the new CC faction. Knights get an N4 overhaul making them viable. All their HI is competent enough in CC and OS are given a discount so they can properly support. Eclipse is given out.

    Sval is also CC infused. We have Hammer man Dire foes, KoJ CC monster, and even the doctor of St. Lazarus can hold his own. Ninja merc is also competent and wields smoke.
     
  6. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    Interesting thought, but I hope for rules and unit loadouts reinforcing PanO theme of being an industrial powerhouse, and building its army to reflect that. Soldiers relying less on extreme levels of personal training, more on first-rate weapons and equipment. Mass production, standarization, gear modularity, TAGs.

    1. Auxbots. Less units with with Auxbots, but Auxbot options for existing units; for example a few Fusilier loadouts getting access to them, while Auxilia getting removed from the roster. GdA becoming specialized Acon ORC loadouts. Bulleteers and Peacemakers merging into a single Armbot units, just with options for either ODD, or MechDep and Auxbot. This would allow to remove quite a few SKUs, and replacing them with a single box containing four Auxbots, to be distributed among other units as needed. More Auxbot types, too; recon, electronic warfare, marksman, SWAT...
    2. Base units getting unique options, depending on sectorial, in line with what we saw with Varuna ORCs (and what we'll probably see with Svalrheima ones). Fusiliers being the baseline LI; Regulars might get removed as a separate entry, but Acon could get Fusiliers with some unique loadouts to represent them (Sapper sniper, Spitfire, Minelayer/Sensor). Auxilia could become Fusiliers with Auxbots unique to NCA. ORCs could fulfill this role as a baseline HI. MI I'd keep as they are, they have already a lot of flavour, though I'd build up Black Friars more, pushed our AD MI further apart, and moved Bagh-Mari further from being Nisse lite.
    3. More focus on weaponry. More units getting a Multi Rifle loadout (Fusiliers, most MI and HI). Introducing Multi Marksman Rifles and Multi Spitfires (maybe on combat remotes? It sounds like a bulky weapon). More visors, especially X-V.
    4. Better Engineers. Ditching Tech Bee, making Mashinist an Engineer+, introducing some additional Engineer options in select units.
    5. TAGs are pretty good as they are, though I'd really like to see more models in the Stingray3 series. Or maybe completely new Stingray4 ones? S5 TAGs?
    6. Viable CC pretty much restricted to MO units(which of course could get attached to various sectorials in small quantities); MO getting Eclipse, too.
     
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  7. Nuada Airgetlam

    Nuada Airgetlam Nazis sod off ///

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    You mean you basically want Heavy Infantry Makauls? :D

    I'd say some form of White Noise, probably worn like Stratuscloud, would be much more appropriate for a high-tech faction like PanO than alien tech bullshit like Eclipse :D
     
  8. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Albedo?

    Though, I hope that skill goes away all together. It's confusing and pretty much junk. PanO already has eclipse grenades anyway – look at the guarda
     
  9. SpectralOwl

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    Eclipse technology isn't actually alien, it's even available in Aristeia! on a PanO unit- albeit the second one to bear the loadout, as the first one was eaten by his grenades. As for favouring equipment over skills, I can get behind this wholeheartedly. However, limiting PanO's CC capabilities is a bad idea as long as Looting and Sabotaging still exists in its current form; that mission is a nightmare for factions like NCA and OSS that have no methods to deliver their CC, nor enough redundancy or quality to protect them.
     
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  10. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    how about looting and sabotaging is fixed so its not so dependent on CC.
     
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  11. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
    Warcor

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    The key element of what makes Makauls so nasty is that they are cheap ;) Eclipse grenades on a HI costing over 30-35 pts won't be as problematic.

    And Eclipse isn't alien tech, it's described as being a hi-tech smoke, Aleph has more units with it than both CA and Tohaa put together :P
     
  12. Pinky

    Pinky Well-Known Member

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    I'd really enjoy having melee oriented MO to set them apart from Invincible Army (assuming their fix would otherwise include NCO, TactAware, Lt2). It would open up a lot of new viable builds and avert absolute reliance on HMGs in the first turn, MO as the Spitfire filled faction would vastly benefit from it. And melee capabilities would as well become excellent as having Magisters and Teutons gang up on someone would be fun.
     
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  13. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    If it's something someone cares a bit about MO not being CC enough : I've never been able to achieve Predator as much as I do with MO, and even against armies known for their WB and CC prowesses. All our Knigts shoot well and CC well so you can choose which one will be the best. AHD bandits are no match for a knight with MA in his active turn. Troops like Irmandinhos, Pretas and Dog faces (Mc Murrough excepted) aren't really a problem for Magisters and any other knight. Since you have 2W, the chain Rifle isn't as effective as usual and your higher CC and MA1 is going to take them down rather effectively.
    From my point of view, MO is great even without Smokes. The lack of linkability of the MSV2 sergeant and the MSR Black Friar is what is hurting the most. Outside of this, MO has really a lot of things to perform well. Obvious lieutenant isn't a problem when you assume this entirely. They are rather tough to kill, TBH.
    Yes, they have obvious weaknesses but I find them more and more easy to play with as I play this sectorial rather than with the hidden weakness (lack of efficient long range MSV2 platform). May be meta dependant...
    Their main problem is they need a different set up to deal with different kind of tables, rather than a real problem to achieve a scenario in particular. So, I find myself building my lists more in case of extremly opened tables or extremly short range oriented tables rather than having a list specifically for one scenario. Since specialists aren't a problem in MO, I can dedicate more ressources in fighting and moving in order to dominate the table with the right tools.
     
  14. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    I frequently find myself with the opposite problem. I find myself using melee significantly more when I play other factions particularlywhen I have smoke access. The opportunities just dont appear. Maybe we should swap table pictures?
     
  15. Stiopa

    Stiopa Trust The Fuckhead
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    My main wishes for MO is making each of the knights relevant (I think they're already more than halfway there), putting in some proper defense (right now they have good offense, but they're usually so outnumbered that their defense is full of openings), and cleaning up the links, so there's more flexibility and less confusion. Everything else would just be a cherry on top.
     
    #175 Stiopa, Mar 12, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
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  16. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    I think we can all agree MO needs work to some degree – I'm really hoping Order Sergeants receive the most attention
     
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  17. Doa

    Doa Well-Known Member

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    When we will have new profiles?
     
  18. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Probably during the videos scheduled for next week.
     
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  19. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
    Warcor

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    Yep, spoiler week profiles which are approximately accurate within one or two skills
     
  20. Make PanO Great Again :P

    Make PanO Great Again :P Varuna, with the deadliest reptiles in the sphere

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    Legit question, how do you manage AVA?
    If its all together we can go 4 Pacemaker/Buleteer a list
    If we go only 2 it limits your options hard
    go 3 middle of the road and no one is happy?