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Elephant in the room...

Discussion in 'PanOceania' started by MikeTheScrivener, Jan 27, 2020.

  1. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    I'd actually like this idea alot. Seems like the way to go considering Yu Jing's doc & engineer are clearly stated to be Zhanshi trained in their fields of expertise. Doing so for all or most factions is a good idea. One interesting thing to note is that when teh Line Kazak box came out the Kazak Doctor (a separate unit in Army Builder) was paired with the other Line Kazak loadouts. In other words your idea was already used by CB in placing the Doc/Engineer in the common Line Troop's SWC box. Maybe we are headed in that direction in N4.

    I agree with the rest of your post as well.
     
  2. Judge Dredd

    Judge Dredd Well-Known Member
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    Maybe it means paramedic will become doctor with a -3 wip or something more useful than a medkit caddy?
     
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  3. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    That could work as well. It would certainly streamline the Army Builder choices. Maybe keep the Machinist as a unique PanO unit or Fusilier loadout in leu of Haqqislam's super doctor options. With PanO being the most techy of the Human nations it would make sense to have super engineers. But maybe CB is saving that idea for another faction? Possibly O-12? Nomads would be a good choice as well but they already got an engineer unit and it's perk is having 15wp for getting stuff done.
     
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  4. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Well I guess we have our answer, as of 3/9/20.

    no.

    Now the question becomes:
    Will all Acon units be squatted? will some stay as Vanilla exclusives and some go?
     
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  5. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    When was this? Any links or vids that show this info?
     
  6. Lady Numiria

    Lady Numiria Cyberius TaskForce

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    It was spoiled by Chain of Command on facebook, stating that's official CB statement (not sure from who that's coming, but that's very plausible after earlier statement about N4 release armies).

    Also concerned every discontinued sectorials and Tohaa.
     
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  7. A Mão Esquerda

    A Mão Esquerda Deputy Hexahedron Officer

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    It was communication from CB to *a* retailer, with a follow up screen cap from a WarCor bard out of that store of Koni advising in the WarCor forums that an official statement/announcement will come Friday.
     
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  8. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    I too am hoping that this new edition doesn't rub people the wrong way. I'd be surprised if the sectorials are gone for good. They'd most likely have Qapu, MRRF, NCA SAA, Tohaa, etc...come back in some form in the future. The only way I see a sectorial getting canned for good is if it doesn't sell as well or played as much by the public upon returning to the que. Then we'd get a fluff blurb about the force being disbanded or annihilated in the lore.
    I hope the announcement is a good one. CB has a potential storm on their hands if they are not careful. Granted they can't please everyone but just having all sectorials, even oop ones, available to still use in N4 will go a long way in reliving everyone's fears.
     
  9. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Those who have read the other thread understand my opinion, but to reiterate – It's sad, but ultimately necessary. not everything can be around forever and I look forward to the design space this opens up and any eventual revisit. I get it.

    I am curious to see if any profiles will stick around in Vanilla or if it's all going the way of the dodo. It's tough to imagine a world where we lose the Swiss and Aquila guard – though NCA, two distinctly PanO units. More realistically we'll lose only the units that are OOP.
    This still means Bolts are going away – the loss of cheap CoC really hurts Vanilla if theres no replacement.
     
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  10. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    I think that that only makes sense when viewed through the lens of circular logic. "It must be necessary because CB did it and it's necessary therefore CB did it."
     
  11. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member
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    Why do you think so?
     
  12. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Because you can't prove a negative. "There was no way that CB could launch N4 and still have those sectorials in the rules set!" is a false statement.
     
  13. Golem2God

    Golem2God Just a Kooky Kumotail serving others.

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    Regardless, lets hold our peace until friday's announcement & see what it brings.
     
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  14. SpectralOwl

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    While I normally take the optimistic stance with these things, I believe you are quite wrong about the necessity of full Sectorial removal and the possibility of beneficial design space. With PanO having more HI and CC units than Yu Jing, yet unable to claim superiority in direct gunfighting anymore and about to lose two Sectorials that include most of its high-quality equipment options right after the Uprising and IA fiasco, it feels like CB have forgotten what two of its flagship factions are actually meant to do.

    Hopefully Kaldstrom and N4 will redefine PanO and Yu Jing again, and actually give them a niche they can lean into even if it's not the one we were sold on up until two years ago. But if the news about OOP Sectorials being dropped from the rules is true, I'm going to stop buying Infinity products until N4 releases, and if they haven't gotten their stories straight about what PanO and Yu Jing are actually for I may drop the game despite it being my one serious hobby.

    I've been playing for just three years, and had my starting 300pts list split by the Uprising, had MRRF go out of production a week after I started collecting it, had NCA go OOP just after I finished it and I'm now looking down the barrel of having half my collection rendered unplayable. I am, unsurprisingly, a bit sick of being jerked around by CB policy changes. If they can't stick to a story after an edition change gives them an opportunity to reinvent the game without letting old badly-planned baggage getting in the way, I'm out, and I suspect several others will be too.
     
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  15. Ayadan

    Ayadan Knight of the TAG Order

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    At least, Janzerker will cease to make noise about the HI faction not being the HI faction once Swiss, Aquila and Guarda will go...

    I'll wait and see at the moment but losing 2 of those armies is hard to endure.
     
  16. Tobogan

    Tobogan Defensor del Orgullo PanOceánico

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    Guess I'll keep playing with my 2ed minis for C1. No point in buying new stuff anymore.
     
  17. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    I'm all for a big culling in between editions. Gonna suck if it's your army/Sectorial, but it's better for the game. You can't reasonably expect a new player to catch up at this point, making it easier on those guys and going for a soft reboot to take a breather is a good thing.
    Mind you that does open up the cut Sectorials to be readded to the game in updated and revised form, rather than rolling out wave after wave of crappy and more diluted "content" for the sake of content. Remember when WHFB and WHFB weren't about putting several big things on the table to smack into one another and were based around building an army that then enabled you to take a couple of faction specific units? Dwarfs didn't have monsters but monster slayers, humans didn't have monstrous cavalry but a lot of mostly war machines.

    What's the alternative to a reboot, loosing some troops and entire Sectorials temporarily in the process?
    We could port everything in existence to N4. All the Merc bloat, cross faction access to Aleph troops and loaners. How would the game grow from there though? Realistically you'd end up phasing out older troops for better optimized choices or add inconsequential bland gruel to the blender, with the occasional real choice.

    N4 is (hopefully) gonna be a fun new take on the game with a lot to explore and more meaningful decisions in listbuilding. As someone who just bought into Tohaa and owns like 7 playable Secotrials - some parts of it will be annoying, especially if it hits "your guys". But that's the price we have to pay for improvement, rather than more of the same.

    That's not how this works. Remember when we had a vote about Uprising and people promised to shut up if they lost?
    Guess what happened...
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Well hopefully they do a better job with it than Uprising because let me tell you removing Vanilla YJ's JSA options didn't really end up doing jack shit for design space.
     
  19. Teslarod

    Teslarod when in doubt, Yeet

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    Shoo Shooo, off with you to somewhere else where anyone cares.
    These are the PanO Forums, we're too busy with our own salt mines to give a shit about that here.
     
    #119 Teslarod, Mar 10, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  20. Pinky

    Pinky Well-Known Member

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    I'll definitely suspend any spending on CB until we know for certain and if any gets axed on release from play I'll stop being a customer. I don't like being treated like cattle and having the armies (NCA and Acon) that I play invalidated so they can stimulate more spending is something I can't tollerate. There's other games, other miniatures (I mainly buy Infinity for the sake of painting as setting up a game is not easy for me).
     
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