To clarify my (perhaps simplistic) reading of the situation, I just read the ISC categorisation and noted that a regular ORC has the categorisation "ISC: Orc Troops"; whereas Patsy Garnett who is an Orc troop character, has the categorisation: "ISC: Patsy Garnett, Orc Troops, Varuna Div. NCO", hence - because the ISC says specifically 'Orc Troops' I thought that made her an Orc... but I'm happy to be wrong. Maybe I've spent too much time with Objective-C, but ... Code: #include <CorvusBelli/ISC.h> @interface Patsy_Garnett : Heavy_Infantry <Orc Troops, Character> I try not to do interpretation, because that way to the Dark Side leads, as we know; I just read the ISC lines and the Wildcard/Duo abilities and thought it all made sense. My suggestion is as above, if I'm not correct but it can be explained why she's not an ORC, then we'd at least have a succinct question to ask Corvus Belli? [I'll shortly be travelling long distance, and may not reply quickly; thanks for your understanding]
I get where you're coming from @Wolf, but CB doesn't have any sort of rule about keywording in unit names/classifications. They have not yet adopted that advanced technology as seen in Warmachine, 40K, etc.
Well it's not for lack of me repeatedly beating on their door every few months, I can tell you! I keep telling them they need an Infinity version of Magic: the Gathering's Oracle online rules system, that you could whizz them one up in short order, and we could have all the rules kinks worked out within the year. So if it's not the ISC name that has to match up with the other Duo member, where is the unit's name that must match?
it has to match every letters of the ISC name, not just a subset of those letters. Which is why a ISC: Cutters, Varuna Naval Chasseurs, is not the same as a ISC : Chasseurs. edit: and the reason it needs to match the ISC name, is because Loadout names are not required to match, and at the same time we don't want to allow normal fireteam to link with any unit.
I dunno, but I think Toadchild already threw a spanner into those particular works? My own reasoning is just the same as for Stephen Rao, whose own Firetean abilities as a Baghdad-Mari would seem directly applicable to Patsy Garnett as an Orc (see Army skills detail). He is a unique character unit, but he is also a Bagh-Mari trooper. PanOceania────────────────────────────────────────────────── 1 LT. STEPHEN RAO Lieutenant Combi Rifle / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) 0 SWC | 23 Points Open in Infinity Army
Much as Patsy is an Orc, he's a Bagh Mari, but he also has a special rule in the sectorial linkability chart: It's not anything inherent to their statlines; it's an explicit exception to the Fireteam: Core rules about having to be part of the same unit. I agree that they could have gone with a more generic keyworded system, but unfortunately they did not.
I would love all Reverends to be linkable with each other. :'( But the idea of all Kazaks being linkable with each other isn't borne out in the rules.
Bizarrely, Stephen Rao (#1 Infinity hot dad) has his old SAA Fireteam note showing in Vanilla PanO, that looks a lot like a bug.
You should mention that in the army bug thread; Zoe's on a bug-fixing streak at the moment Edit: I see you already did that :-)
Yeah, they would have to actually define the terms appropriately and make the fireteam rules with them in mind. A carelessly applied keyword scheme is worse than no keywords at all.
What can I say? Our thread amounts to a religious debate between members of a tabletop-gaming cargo cult who struggle to make sense of the strange rules that wash up on our shores. Bereft of a proper understanding for these strange rules, we earnestly make up more or less credible reasons for what it all means. You may quote me. My personal cargo-cult explanation is that - also presuming her Duo ability wasn't an error, the scope of ISC namespaces is intended to include the notion of unit classes as well as exclusive unit names. Thus means this trooper is of the Bagh-Mari Unit class and is also a named character called 'Lt. Stephen Rao'. If he had a Duo profile, it would allow him to form a Fireteam with another unit of the Bagh-Mari Unit class. The special text about his actual Fireteam abilities clarifies that this is indeed how it's supposed to work. Patsy has no such special text, but likewise means that this trooper is of the ORC Troops class and is also a named character called 'Patsy Garnett'. Her Duo ability is intended to allow her to form a Fireteam: Duo with another unit of her class, which are Orc Troops. Players can make it harder than that no doubt, but if anyone wants to come up with a better explanation, I'll bet a beer* that mine is what CB intended and will eventually clarify - because, what the hell else could it mean? (Said he, esteemed Deacon of the Infinity Rules Cargo Cult ) Spoiler: * Terms and Conditions Terms and Conditions Minors may not apply Only the first five punters taking the bet will be accepted Punters taking the bet must also provide another, contrary explanation; it's not enough to simply disagree - this is beer we're talking about 'A beer' is understood as a unit of social exchange meaning 'a single drink of your choice, to the same value' A Wolf Coupon will be issued to value as and when any reasonable clarification is obtained from CB Wolf Coupons are valid indefinitely, and will be redeemed in good faith at any suitable tournaments we both attend at any time in the future because debating tabletop rules is all well and good, but not nearly as good as sharing a drink in the spirit of agreement that playing tabletop games together is a fine thing.
Alternatively, different ISCs are different ISCs. That doesn't mean her Duo skill is an error, because it allows her to form a Duo with an Orc option that doesn't have the Duo Skill (via being a Wildcard, not via counting as an Orc), or with Squalo that doesn't have the Duo Skill.
Okay, so with all due respect for your stature as a High Priest of our little Cargo Cult your own particular, and who knows, possibly privileged mystical explanation amounts to the following: Patsy Garnett has an ability called 'Fireteam: Duo that works exactly like Fireteam: Duo, except that unlike every other instance of Fireteam: Duo, it includes units that do not share her ISC name (or do not belong to the same unit/class, as I suggest). Although this ability has no further exception, such as we might expect given the expample of the additional text in Stephen Rao's profile, you'd like us to accept this explanation because ... it's Christmas, and we should have faith in the Lords of Cangas? Is this a fair summary of your counter proposition? Because whilst I find it strange and unnecessary (she's an ORC for heaven's sake; just Duo her with other ORCs and let's move on!) I also find the second part about our onus to have faith in the Lords of Cangas actually pretty compelling! And more importantly Ian, are you actually taking my bet or what?
In addition to the Fireteam Common Requirements, a Fireteam: Duo has to fulfill the following specific Requirements: A Fireteam: Duo must be composed of a maximum of two troopers. Both members of the Fireteam: Duo must belong to the same unit, or those combinations of units indicated on their Sectorial Army List. One of the members must have the Special Skill Fireteam: Duo. What part of that isn't being fulfilled?
Spare me your 'questions with questions' Ian, and do please speak directly; it's Christmas after all. Are you taking the bet, or what?
I don't need to take the bet. Background-wise, she's an Orc. In game terms, she's a separate unit with a separate ISC. She doesn't need to count as an Orc because she can be part of any Fireteam in the Sectorial. There are no problems with her Fireteam: Duo Special Skill, because of her ability to be part of any Fireteam.
Unless the fact that Patsy can form a duo in a Sectorial allows her to form that same Duo in Vanilla with Team Pro. The question remains, whether the phrase "their Sectorial Army List" is meant to be understood as the Sectorial Army List in which their Fireteam options appear (for Patsy, VIRD) or the Sectorial Army List that you are actually using (Vanilla, which has no Fireteam options listed so only the default Orc + Orc Duo would be valid).
As far as I'm aware, no. By definition, a generic army is not a Sectorial army and doesn't have a Sectorial Army List.
