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Druze Bayram Security Observations

Discussion in 'Druze Bayram Security' started by Reece, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    You might be overlooking the Haris skill.
     
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  2. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    Druze are definitely swc starved. That is for sure. They have so many toys, it is tough to fit them all in.
     
  3. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    With the Druze Haris, what role do you envision for it? Are players taking the Core Druze link as well as the Haris team?

    Outside of the Core Druze link, I'm not that sure I'd want a Haris also. I generally find myself taking 3 Druze, some key Brawler profiles (usually LT, Engineer, and MSV2 Sniper depending on matchup), Valerya and the Clipper. After that, I feel like I've spent so much on linkable bodies that I can't really envision trying to get even more.

    Everything else is going into support and midfield units: Hunzakut, Saito, Peacemakers, Pathfinders, Fugazi, etc.
     
  4. TheDiceAbide

    TheDiceAbide That's just like your opinion man.
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    I just had my first few games with Druze, at a local ITS, which I won, haha.

    We played 200 points, I took a buy, and then had two major victories in Tic-Tac-Toe and Acquisition. Here are the lists I took:

    druze-acquisition.png druze-tac-toe.png

    In Tic-Tac-Toe the Hunzakut were awesome, claiming 5 objectives between them. The Peacemaker locked down a flank with Enhanced Reaction from Valerya. On the active turn Assisted Fire on the Clipper was every bit as devastating as I had envisioned, clearing out 3 members of my enemy's defensive link, before eating a missile crit. I Isolated 3 models with the E/M LGL, most impressively isolating and IMM-2 a Swiss Guard AHD.

    In Acquisition I took second turn, Saito was able to keep the enemy off of one antenna and the central objective, while the Druze team held down the other Antenna. Again I isolated 3 enemy models including a Myrmidon, Myrmidon Officer, and Phoenix.

    In both games I activated every model in the list at least twice, except the Fugazi. This is an incredible toolbox army, every unit has tools that are helpful and effective in the right situations. Using my pitchers and deployable repeaters gave me a solid hacking net, which helped a lot in Tic-Tac-Toe to keep my enemy's remotes at bay. The 4-2 move didn't bother me at all with the Druze, but I'm pretty used to it from playing USAriadna.
     
  5. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    At first I wanted to see more than 4 actual Druze in a Druze sectorial list. It's disappointing that having so few of them makes sense and seems to be par for the course.

    The other reason was to run 2 Burst 5 HMG with different attack vectors.

    Ultimately though I don't think the druze harris an efficient use of points or SWC, especially since the 1 SWC Harris profile's DEP can't even take advantage of the bonus burst. It might work in single combat group list though, but outside of Limited Insertion I don't think that would be my prefered way to run DBS.

    EDIT: I think the list I was looking at was something like this:


    [​IMG] Testrun15
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] DRUZE Lieutenant (X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)
    [​IMG] DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    [​IMG] DRUZE HMG, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] DRUZE Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] CLIPPER DRONBOT Smart Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 18)
    [​IMG] PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    [​IMG] HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]4 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] DRUZE HMG, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] DRUZE (Fireteam: Haris, X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D.E.P. / Viral Pistol, CCW. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] DRUZE (X Visor) Shock Marksman Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)
    [​IMG] KAMEEL (Minesweeper, Repeater) Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #165 jfunkd, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  6. barakiel

    barakiel Echo Bravo Master Sergeant
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    Good observations. I feel the same way about about double Druze teams that I do about double Bagh Mari Teams... Burst 5 HMG seems appealing, until I rationalize that getting +1 Burst costs me ~50 points. 100 points for +1 Burst on two different HMGs feels odd.

    Of course, those extra link members do bring Orders, other weapons, etc., but since I often just want HMGs that can attack from two different vectors, as you mentioned, I tend to just bring lone Heavy Infantry HMGs to do that job instead.

    Something like that is a much more obvious choice for something like a Bagh Mari or Intruder, who are both very good solo choices that can attack/resist a broad spectrum of enemies with a good chance of success. It's a harder decision to make for Druze HMGs.

    The big challenge I encounter with Druze is having so much of that super-link all concentrated in one area of the table. One Chain Rifle Wielder can cause serious problems. Something like a Cameronian that gets into the backfield is a nightmare. So I'm trying to think of ways to maintain that good concentrated gunfighting ability without having to lump 150 points of one-wound guys all close together.
     
  7. TriggerPuller9000

    TriggerPuller9000 Poverty Orde Wingate

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    Interesting point here - while DBS *can* play the inforwar game, it doesn't do it particularly well - no camo infil hackers, generally lower WIP except Gromoz, and low BTS.

    With DBS, you *can* spread a huge repeater net, but do you really want to? I've found that casting a wide net leaves me vulnerable against high tech factions with hidden infiltrating Killer Hackers. Instead I try to keep my repeaters in the DZ most of the game and use them as a scalpel when necessary. For example, last game vs. Vanilla Yu Jing I spent a few orders maneuvering a Fugazi and dropping a Sniffer so the Pathfinder could reveal a previously-revealed Dao Fei Assault Hacker. Then, the Druze KHD blew him away through the Repeater. This was a special case where he would have been very difficult to shift without that order investment, using conventional weapons. There was also possibly a Ninja KHD somewhere on the table and I didn't want him murdering Gromoz too early.

    Anyway, not saying DBS is bad at hacking or anything like that, just that I think casting a wide repeater net and trying to leverage it is a little bit of a trap in this faction.



    FWIW I've been enjoying this (different list):

    [​IMG] Druze Bayram Security
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10
    [​IMG] VALERYA GROMOZ Hacker (Hacking Device UPGRADE: Expel) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    [​IMG] DRUZE HMG, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    [​IMG] DRUZE Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)
    [​IMG] CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)
    [​IMG] SAITO TOGAN (Specialist Operative) Combi Rifle, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, EXP CCW, Knife. (0 | 40)
    [​IMG] SCARFACE & CORDELIA TURNER . (1.5 | 74)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SCARFACE 2 Mk12, Heavy Rocket Launcher / AP CCW. (1.5 | 57)
    [​IMG] [​IMG] SCARFACE Boarding Shotgun / Pistol, CCW. ()
    [​IMG] [​IMG] CORDELIA TURNER Combi Rifle, Chain-colt, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 17)
    [​IMG] SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    [​IMG] BRAWLER Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 16)

    GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]2 [​IMG]1
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] FUGAZI DRONBOT Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)
    [​IMG] BASHI BAZOUK (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 17)

    6 SWC | 300 Points

    Open in Infinity Army

    Biggest issue with the SuperFriends fireteam up top is that it's a mutually-interdependent house of cards. Remove one element and it becomes incredibly less survivable/deadly/useful. Clipper watches the table, Gromoz buffs the clipper, HKD protects Gromoz, Engineer repairs the Clipper - Like I said, house of cards, but boy does it do work.
     
    #167 TriggerPuller9000, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  8. sorniak

    sorniak Well-Known Member

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    :) Why brawlers haris cost is 0.5 swc? odalisque haris is 0.5 swc? - no I didn't overlook it. It is too expensive and if 0.5 swc is a cost for DEP then why druze with panzerfaust has no swc cost at all.

    Incredible luck :) I had a game whith speculative fire on 13 (Duroc) and couldnt hit a guy who was dodging on 11 for 5 orders. I still think that one infiltrator with boarding shotgun and gameover for a nice and shiny druze link.
     
  9. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    It's a compelling question, but I'll counter point with: can you avoid having repeater net exposure and still make the most of this sectorial?

    Kameels and Fugazi are really the only cheerleaders, AVA 3 on Pathfinders (which are vital units in this army), and Peacemakers seem to be the most efficient blitz unit; these are all intended staple units in this sectorial. For most lists I've written and seen, even without ever throwing a pitcher or deploying a repeater the risk to your hackers is still there.

    Your thoughts led me to realize how easily a hacker in the core fireteam could be it's weakest link in the active turn. I can see a token/hidden state KHD just waiting near a DBS repeater for the the core to activate without the hacker as the link leader.
     
  10. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I have personally had great success in the infowar game. The only real danger they have is against Aleph, and Haqq (high WIP). BTS 3 on the druze hackers is very good. I run a Brawler AHD, Druze Killer, and Valerya. This gives me plenty of hacking offense and defense. I also go with the Druze Core, and the Brawler defense haris.

    Hackers can be weak links for sure, but this can worked around. Also has it been faq'ed you can ARO against a hacker not hacking you through the repeater?
     
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  11. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    If an enemy hacker is activated and not using stealth, any of your hackers in ZoC of an enemy repeater could attempt to ARO hack through the repeater regardless of what the hacker is doing.

    Regarding hacking through hostile repeaters, the Repeater rule reads (paraphrased and emphasis mine): they can perform hacking attempts against any enemy Hacker.

    As long as the hacking program they use is capable of being an ARO, then there are no restrictions to prevent it from working in the reactive.
     
    #171 jfunkd, Jan 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  12. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    Yea I mean the hacking through enemy repeaters. I know in the active turn you can do it, but I thought it was still foggy if you could do it as an aro.
     
  13. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    For those of you having trouble with SWC (I certainly did and still do) I'd like to sing the praises of the shock marksman rifle druze. It was such an awesome model I was looking for reasons to take it over the HMG, and I've found 3.

    1. SWC pinch. This is a bit of a cheat reason but instead of doubling up on HMGs you can run one of each.
    2. Anti sniper tech. What outranges a HMG doesnt necessarily outrange a marksman with a x visor. HMG Has -3 32"-48", marksman has 0 24"-40. Its an extra 8 inch bubble that comes into play a lot be because of limited table space. It becomes increasingly harder to find lanes longer than that, and people don't prepare for it in deployment yet.
    3. Best duo partner. Full stop. This guy is great for delivering specialists. He can fight like a sniper to abuse -6, hurts enough to kill, and has great range bands for mid table fighting as well, not minding being up close. He can be the point man to deliver specialists up field and once there still has his chain colt during the ARO. Theres a lot to be said about having a good (or passable) range band for every situation.

    My recommendation is to pair one with a KHD druze. He can be a threat to hackers along the way, can cybermask to be a poor camo impersonation when you just need to cross a pinned down gap between buildings, and if you want to "secure" him for the ARO round and overextended you can put him into cybermask with his partner being a template. Its sort of like those annoying KHD zeros that stick a mine down before camo-ing requiring you to risk someone getting there in the first place, then waste time discovering, except now the mine has a viral pistol and a long range weapon if you're being tricky.
     
  14. Reece

    Reece EI Aspect
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    This part is confusing to me. If the KHD enters a marker state (Cybermask), he is immediately removed from the link.

    You're just saying the KHD is good for being near by to provide cover for his teammate right?
     
  15. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    Yep! They lose link bonuses but the only bonus for duo is efficent movement. Nothing is lost by breaking the link once they reach midfield.

    The first reference to entering cybermask is just about how he can break the link and cross a 6 inch gap if its too order costly to fight down a lane. The second reference is just about how the marksman is a template placer during the reactive turn. I should have been clearer
     
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  16. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
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    And a lot can be gained! Most Druze are much more difficult to remove in midfield Suppression fire than if they remained in a fireteam.
     
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  17. theGricks

    theGricks Well-Known Member

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    I love the SMR Druze...but I also love the HMG. DMG16 B5 HMG with BS15 in full link is just...rude
     
  18. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    Druze Bayram Security
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
    GROUP 1: [​IMG]9 [​IMG]1 DRUZE Lieutenant (X Visor) Combi Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)DRUZE HMG, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 29)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Combi Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher (E/M and Nimbus) / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 27)
    VALERYA GROMOZ Hacker (Hacking Device UPGRADE: Expel) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)
    CLIPPER DRONBOT Missile Launcher / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 17)PEACEMAKER Heavy Shotgun + AUXBOT_3 / Electric Pulse. (0 | 21) AUXBOT_3 Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (- | 4)
    DRUZE (X Visor) Shock Marksman Rifle, Chain-colt / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 27)DRUZE Hacker (Killer Hacking Device) Combi Rifle + Pitcher, D-Charges / Viral Pistol, Knife. (0 | 25)
    SIERRA DRONBOT HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 25)
    HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    GROUP 2: [​IMG]3 [​IMG]1 PATHFINDER DRONBOT Combi Rifle, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 16)
    KAMEEL Hacker (EVO Hacking Device) Electric Pulse. (0.5 | 25)
    BRAWLER Engineer Rifle + Light Shotgun, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 20)NASMAT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)
    WARCOR (Aerocam) Flash Pulse / Stun Pistol, Knife. (0 | 3) 5.5 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army

    ¿Por que no los dos?
     
  19. McNamara

    McNamara Merc Rep

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    I am using Arslan pretty much like this. I guess you could use a SMR Druze and a Brawler Lt. for 43 points to provide similar use and a bit more security, but I kinda like the risk reward play of Arslan and getting him up the board with a KHD Druze and then going into Multi/MSV1 SupFire with the Lt. Order is just plain fun.
     
    #179 McNamara, Jan 9, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
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  20. Q.A.I.

    Q.A.I. Well-Known Member

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    You know, I was just thinking about that as I was writing that. It just occurred to me to use Arslan in the duo, Ive been using him in my harris (plural?). I can't say full stop anymore, but they're both strong contenders :R: