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Downfall - Just finished (please keep spoiler-free)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic English' started by Uthoroc, Apr 20, 2022.

  1. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    @wafu_vasco

    How are currently the reviews of the Novelization. . .??

    Also, there is possibility that Corvus Belli will realize "Special Event" Miniature of the Four Protagonists, maybe even with Special Stats. . .??

    Even if I believe they were intended as "Archetypal of Faction Miniatures of that Troopers" in the past has been realized even more complex Special Miniatures. . .

    If You are aware and familiar with the Infinity RPG would be a Game Version of the Characters and the Plot of the Novel (and "Aftershock Event" or even "Prequel Events Leading To. . ." kind of Scenario) be a correct praising of Your work. . . . .???
     
  2. wafu_vasco

    wafu_vasco Well-Known Member

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    A number of good questions!

    - Reviews have averaged out to be been pretty similar to a lot of Winged Hussar novels, which is predominantly good with an average on Amazon of between 4 and 4.5 stars; what's different about Downfall is the number of ratings and reviews posted online is a lot higher than normal for a WHP book that's only been out for a few months. That's indicative of the strength of the franchise, and how popular Infinity is as a system. Looking ahead, we all try to learn from each project and already there are things I think I could do better next time but overall it's been positive; both sales and feedback has been good enough that we're currently drawing up a contract for a follow up novel focusing on one of CB's existing characters as the main protagonist, and one of the Downfall survivors as a supporting main character.

    - I don't think we'll see any more miniatures or stats any time soon, but in the future it is possible. Of the 4 protagonists, Hawkins already has a mini and rules. Shankar and Cochrane were always intended to represent 'regular' Fusiliers and so are represented by the rules already released for standard Fusiliers. Both of them could also be represented by many of the Fusilier minis already released. That just leaves Beckmann, who is...complicated. Definitely intended as a special character, there was some talk of rules for her but the CB team are always juggling so many jobs that this plan was put on hold. As for a mini, that's even more complicated given the amount of work that goes into each and every one of them. It's even harder than Hawkins, as the Hawkins mini had a head sculpted to coincide with the cover art, and then some different weapons, but the armour is the standard Hospitaller heavy armour so nothing new needed to be designed from the ground up there; it was a case of a new head, pose and different weapons. Beckmann would need planning out from scratch entirely, as she does not wear or use standard Hexa kit.

    - I used the RPG sourcebooks for a lot of the research behind Downfall, particularly Paradiso and the Military Orders. Even tiny references like Hawkins not using his armour's environmental control system because he knows of Hospitallers who have refused to use their armour's heating in freezing conditions is something taken from the RPG sourcebooks, as is pretty much all of the Paradiso vegetation. However, I've never actually played the RPG! Personally, I'd love to see anything from the novel incorporated into the RPG and N4, and I'd be on hand to help out in any way I possibly could, but any demand for that would really need to be driven by the community. CB are one of the busiest companies I've ever had the privilege to work with, so naturally they need to be selective with what projects they prioritise. I'd imagine any author who writes a story supporting a war-game would love to see their characters or ideas incorporated into the games, but it needs to be based on community demand and not just what that one author wants. So, if there is enough community demand for minis and rules for N4, or RPG content, I think CB would at the very least give it some thought. And if that amounted to anything, I'd love to help out with whatever came out of it!
     
  3. Croepoek

    Croepoek Well-Known Member

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    Very brief review from my end, hope it helps future books. On purpose a bit cryptic to stay spoiler free. Hope everyone that read the book gets the comments.

    What I liked:
    1. First book about Infinity and it really gives a story to the miniatures. The "regular" infinity books tend to be quite fact heavy/descriptive, this allowed me to dive into a single situation in detail with characters to follow
    2. Cool descriptions of battle scenes
    3. Story quite fine, makes sense and fits into the fluff by attaching to an existing greater story arc while adding a few details
    4. Just love the story, draws me into a game. Another bigger tabletop company from the UK is very good at breathing life into miniatures and creating an emotional connection for the players via countless stories and background. So all in all a good start for CB here from my perspective

    What I think could be improved:
    1. Battle scenes while making sense did not match the game profiles (looking at you smoke grenades!). Which is fine for me, I never understood why PanO is quite hesitant to use them in game (which makes sense coming at it from a balancing stand point, but fluff wise is meh)
    2. While the story told is nice to follow, I am missing another layer. It opens up a bit more in the end, but everything is happening with all characters at the same location. I would have loved to have a POV of some high comand discussing the Whys and Whats of things. Or maybe the other side, at least some brief YJ snippets?
    3. Some moments that could have been great to get some story (e.g. "sniper stealth mission" - no spoilers here).
    4. One or two moments felt a bit like one of the main characters just going berserk outside of their field of expertise (e.g. "drop on top, boom" scene), which was a bit odd. Loved the CC scenes of the knight, though
    5. One of the main characters is portrayed in some side comment like "whoa, most bad ass in sphere", which felt for me just to much. So much crazy stuff in the Infinity universe out there
    All in all enjoyed the book and welcoming this new aspect of the Infinity hobby. Looking forward to your thoughts on my points @wafu_vasco
     
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  4. wafu_vasco

    wafu_vasco Well-Known Member

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    Hi there Croepoek, thanks for the post. More specifically, thanks very much for such a great combination of positive encouragement, and some really well put together points of things that can be better next time, it's genuinely helpful. Ok, to reply:

    What went well...
    1 - The plan was always to spend more word count on character development than a complex, twisting story, so I'm glad it was entertaining as a first novel in the IP.
    2 - I'm glad the battle scene descriptions went well, that was always going to be a make or break part of it.
    3 - CB had a lot to do with that, so definitely credit where it is due. I came up with the overall idea of PanO defending a scientific research outpost; CB put the story on Paradiso, near a border with the Yujingyu.
    4 - Oh man, if I've helped make an emotional connection for even one player, then it was all worth it. This was really great to read, thank you.

    What can be better next time...
    1 - Smoke! You're totally correct. This was a mistake. Whilst having played war-games for years and written both campaign books and novels for other franchises, I was and still am new to Infinity. Giving these guys smoke grenades was an honest mistake I'll hold my hands up to and admit! Sorry! I'll make a reference or two to it in the next novel; not to make excuses or justification, just to poke fun at myself!
    2 - Yeah, the focus was pretty narrow. In the original plan I toyed with the idea of writing some scenes from the YJ point of view, but decided against it. The Infinity lore is so huge and complex, I made the decision to try to delve deep into a tiny area, rather than spread a wider net. As for higher levels of command and control, or for that matter a point of view of a junior NCO or Fusilier, that too could have given a different perspective. You're absolutely right, that's a wider lens to look through, but I've always picked my point of view characters to me in that tactical leadership position, rather than operational or strategic.
    3 - I know which bit you mean! The word count was building a bit, and it's a hard line to tread correctly sometimes. Some ideas had to be cut or summed up, and that particular scene was from the point of view of a character who I wanted to keep an element of mystery over and leave the reader wondering if it was all lies or actually happened. I also didn't want too much 'screen time' for that character, who in the second half of the book starts to get a lot of scenes at the expense of the other three. But you make a good point and it's another one I can try to improve on.
    4 - Yup, again, I get which bit you mean. By and large, the idea is to replicate the game and the tabletop experience, but sometimes it serves the story more to depict something which in game terms is a ludicrously lucky hand of natural 20 rolls - I wouldn't want the story to go in a direction I'm not planning because the tabletop dice rolls would need to be challenging. Those 1s and 20s can crop up at any point! So again, it's a compromise - follow the tabletop experience as much as possible, but not 100%. There are times to break away a little, if the story needs it. This is one of those areas where an author will never get the right balance for every reader - it will work for some but not for all.
    5 - I believe we're on the same character again! Yeah, there was a definite risk of creating a Mary Sue there. However, in that character's own words, "I only show you what I want you to see". That character still makes a lot of mistakes, has a lot of skill shortfalls (IT/Hacking, panicking and breaking down in tears under fire, extremely dubious moral compass, being defeated and overpowered in a hand-to-hand confrontation in a car park, needing rescuing from death, crashing a car and dying etc) so whilst there are some Sphere level strengths, there are also, I hope, some major shortcomings. But of the four point of view characters, that it also the one who has the most actual combat experience and is from the most selective and highly trained specialisation, so was always going to be the most dangerous. And whilst I do get your quote is paraphrased, the quote in the book was "one of the most dangerous" rather than "the" singular most dangerous, and specified it was only referring to "covert operatives". That's just me trying to put it in context, not get defensive, you do make a very valid point! The Infinity story I've recently started work on will dial back in this area quite a bit with the new cast of characters.

    Anyhow, this answer has become far longer than it should have been - I sincerely hope it goes some way to explaining the thought process behind the decisions I made and I honestly accept that these decisions won't always be right for everybody - sometimes they're just outright wrong and are something to take away to improve on and try to do better next time. Again, sincere thanks for the balanced and mature feedback, it really does help. If any more questions come, I'll try my best to answer them.
     
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