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Does kaauri sniper worth it and six sense problem in tohaa

Discussion in 'Tohaa' started by perseus, Dec 19, 2017.

  1. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    They Kaauri with SMG is an excellent unit. If it was in another faction. I tried him a few times but with only 2 models the command token for setting them into SF are wasted.
    12 points is in Tohaa an model with Fireteams: Triad. And for 18 points, you will get a model with 2 hp.
    Every other faction would painting for the SMG profile, but in Tohaa it isn't so good at all.
     
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  2. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    That's a fair point, I suppose.
     
  3. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    There are a few other troops that compete with Kaauri sniper for the same role: Gao-rael, Kamael, Nikoul.

    My choice is usually Kamael, as it get's B2 from being in a Triad, while still dirt cheap. It's also a triad filler, if you happen to have a backfield ARO triad.

    As I see Kaauri doesn't add much on top of a Kamael, but loses half the Burst, which is huge. MSV1 is nice to have, but what you are actually looking for is MSV2 to ignore smoke (and ignore all mods from CH and ODD), SSL2 is useful if opponent would spend orders to set up a smoke screen and shoot through that with an MSV2 troop, but maybe you'd be better of with the extra order wasted on your roadblock. I only played against impersonator like once, so have no idea how useful biometric visor is.

    Nikoul would be the perfect ARO piece, apart from only having Burst 1, if it would have MSV2. 1.5SWC is still a lot, it still goes down to HMG or anything else with high burst, but unlike other MSR ARO troops, it has huge survivability with 2 Wounds and a possible symbiomate. It's just annoying how he lacks MSV2, so can't handle cheap smoke impetuous troops nor smoke + MSV2 tricks. Seems like a lof of points and even more SWC for a half solution. Sad.

    Imo Gao-rael is just too expensive to put out for ARO. It has B2 and MSV2. +0.5SWC tax for being an old symbiont armor troop (or maybe not, he's also an MI, where Spitfire costs 1.5SWC), I'd rather have an active turn MSV2 hunter with the Spitfire instead.

    Funny how I think Gao-rael is too expensive for ARO duty, but ML Sukeul isn't. Likely because Mimetism is useful against more targets, ML's template mess up an opponent's plan, if he's trying to shoot at you with his other dudes around to be under the template, though most players will mess this up only once, after that, they deploy better, or spend extra orders to work around it. And ARO troops are looking for extra orders wasted.
     
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  4. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    I tend to have 4 HFT chaksa in my lists, that's why there's no room for the SMG Kaauri. Also they are in different groups, so I can move up a HFT in whatever group I have spare orders. I don't usually spend much command tokens, so I don't see these wasted.
     
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  5. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    You are right, I have most of the time 2 HFT Chaksa as well.
    I need my order tokens mostly for making/regroup triads and move ordermonkeys/key models from my second to my first group.
    Most of the time I have 0-1 order token left in the end of the game.
    And therefore, the command token for only two models is wasted for me :wink:
     
  6. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you need more 5 pts advanced command skills!

    Actually it's not necessarily wasted, it doesn't matter if it's two or four or just one (don't do it with one troop! that's actually a waste of Burst!) troop, if it get's the job done. You are optimizing on effect, not on resource.
     
  7. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    Speaking of those four sniper options, I think I'll toss in some of my own observations about them...

    I don't really think the Gao Rael would be a good defensive sniper option, at least for it's cost. When I am out looking for someone to plant in a corner of my DZ to go on sniper duty, if they aren't a cheap sniper, I'd like them to have some form of survivability increasing aspects ( And while Symbiont Armour might seem to try filling that, the Gao Rael, unlike the Nikoul or Armand, doesn't have anything else native to it to amp up it's capacity to not die immediately, thus increasing it's ability to waste enemy orders ( Sapper for Nikoul, ODD for Armand. ). ) on snipers of such cost. Don't mean they can't be a good offensive sniper though. And if it's in a Tried, I suppose that helps too.

    The Nikoul sounds like a better defensive ( And a comparable offensive, if the enemy has anything within view of their foxhole. ) sniper option. While it does miss out on the second level of MSV, it does come with the ability to be able to deploy anywhere and still have the benefit of cover ( AND being in a Foxhole also adds Mimetism, so that not only adds more negative MODs, but also makes it so the enemy has to have BOTH Marksmanship Lv2 AND MSV to negate all the non-range negative MODs. ) allowing it to pick out just the right sniper spot in your DZ. And a Viral Sniper Rifle is quite a bit scarier than a regular Sniper Rifle, so there is that factor of ''Do I REALLY want to risk it?''. That, and 2 more points to get Minelayer is just an icing on the cake.

    As for the Kamael... yeah, that does look like a pretty superb option for a defensive Triad ( One that probably contains a CoC Kaeltar, I'd assume. ). 16 points, 0.5 SWC and burst 2 in ARO? Is a fairly good deal.

    Kaauri snipers, for their cost, are pretty damn great if you'd ask me. 19 points and half an SWC point for a Sniper that has quite a few abilities to negate or soften rather standard, but not all, ARO piece removal methods ( Sixth Sense Lv2 softens being shot through smoke ( By negating the -6 MOD from it. ), makes dodging templates outside your LoF easier, helping against Speculative/Guided fire, negates negative Surprise Shot mods AND Surprise Attacks mods. MSV1, while not letting you see through Smoke, does soften the negative MOD for shooting back through smoke. ). Not perfect by any means, but it is quite a headache knowing you can't simply TO Surprise shot or shoot through smoke to basically guarantee the kill on an otherwise annoying cheap sniper.

    Ofcourse, none of these will do any good in a sniper role if you don't position them well, but that's a technically different topic relating to sniper positioning.

    Also, I use Command Tokens very frequently for various purposes. Generally speaking, I don't even always have any command points left by the second turn, usually spent on maneuvering several pieces into better spots and/or setting up mines/deployables/sensoring while moving up other units. Or, y'know... taking 2-4 units into suppressive fire. So I have no qualms spending Command Tokens to have some suppressive fire Kaauris.
     
    #27 Maksimas, Aug 31, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  8. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    In my games, the Gao-Rael Sniper is usually one of my best troopers. Even without Symbiomate, that 2-wound, 2-burst Sniper gives real headaches to the oponent.

    The Nikoul is nice, but the MSV1 is vulnerable to both Smoke and White Noise, and Burst 1 means that many times you just roll more than 12 and do nothing.


    Regarding Kawaii Sentinels and Command Tokens, if I'm using them I deploy just one Sentinel or three/four of them, never two. They pair very well with the Taqeul Lt. (another defensive solo model) and its extra Command Token for Coordinated Orders. They also work very well with the Igao or Clipsos, models that you might want to put in SF after they've done their job (take Objective, murder something...).

    It's a pity that we can no longer use Coordinated Orders to put in SF the Rasail or the Kerail.
     
  9. spears

    spears Well-Known Member

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    The sniper only does one thing, shoots its sniper rifle and suffers slightly fewer negative mods than its peers.
    Unfortunately the biovisor doesn't mesh with the sniper very well, how often are impersonators at sniper range?
    The other Tohaa snipers all bring extra value, even the Kamael filling out a link is an important role to play.

    So for me the only time the Kauri shines is to occasionally harass units such as Noctifier missile launchers that sit at long range with visual mods up. Sometimes poor odds with a disposable unit are preferable to engaging with better odds using key gunboats against ammo such as exp.

    So is this more valuable than 19 points spent elsewhere? Probably not, the cheaper versions are just as good at discovering and Chaksa flamers provide value that doesn't tread on the toes of your triads as much as the sniper kauri.
     
  10. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    You can still discover them with +3 while you are also shooting down fire lanes irritating your opponent.
     
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  11. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    I'd honestly say they are worth their cost. And although the Kamael might be better in a Triad, that's the thing: the Kamael Sniper would be better off in a full-size Triad ( Maybe even made of 3 Kamael Snipers, I think now... ), but when you don't find room for a sniper in any of your Triads... 3 points more than a Kamael Sniper, and get yourself Sixth Sense Lv2, MSV1 and BMV2.
     
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  12. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    The great thing about having SSLvl 2 is that the Kauuri can delay its ARO until the Ninja has declared what its second action is. So, you do not have to declare the Nanopulser before you know if they will dodge or CC.
     
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  13. Zsolt

    Zsolt Well-Known Member

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    Ninja is in CC with anything. Why would he/she dodge?

    And why would the ninja be in cc with a Kaauri in the first place? Why not something big?
     
  14. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    Dodge to avoid the Nanopulser.

    I have no idea why the Ninja would get into CC with a Kaauri, I did not create the hypothetical, I am just responding to it.
     
  15. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Because the Tohaa player is using the Kawaii Sentinel to watch over a critical objective and the Ninja KHD is the only one close enough to kill it and capture the objective?
     
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  16. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    Because the increased likelihood of the bow missing/combi rifle alerting nearby friends of the Kaauri would allow them to Alert and pivot, making the Ninja unable to chain together a lot of kills?
     
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