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Does dodge can beat both jammer and other attacks from a coordinated order?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Sungwon, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Sungwon

    Sungwon Member

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    Below the Coordinated Orders page, there is a rule called "Coordinated Order: Dodge, Change Facing, Engage and Reset". It says

    "If the target of a Coordinated Order chooses to Dodge, Change Facing, Engage or Reset as his ARO, then his Roll is Face to Face against attacking Rolls."

    Does this mean the successful roll of dodge can be used to Face to Face against every attacks from the coordinated order?
    For example, active Nomad player attacks a magister knight with a Jammer and a HMG by a coordinated order. The reactive Pano player chooses the magister knight to dodge. If he pass the dodge with 13 and the Nomad player also succeeds the Jammer attack with value 6, is this jammer attack canceled by the dodge?
     
  2. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Jammer is a Comms Attack so Dodge has no effect, you'd need to declare Reset to avoid it.

    Of course, Reset doesn't work against bullets...
     
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  3. Sungwon

    Sungwon Member

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    So, I found a little discrepancy in the Wiki. On the Coordinated orders page, it says "against attacking Rolls". However, on the Reset page, it says "then his Roll is compared in Face to Face against all attacking Rolls". If it is Face to Face against all attacking rolls, doesn't that mean it can beat the Jammer roll?
     
  4. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    Reset works against all incoming Comms Attack rolls.

    Dodge/Change Facing works against all other incoming attack rolls.

    The wording in coordinated orders is compressed a little, but doesn't change the above.
     
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  5. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Isn't this a special case that allows either your reset or dodge to counter any type of incoming attack?

    I believe that is the case, and that you can dodge vs a jammer if they are coordinated.

    This goes with the theme of the game that you can always oppose rolls with a Face to Face in some ways.

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Coordinated_Orders
     
  6. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    The phrasing is also a present in the dodge and reset page, and also slightly different.

    "Coordinated Order: Dodge and Reset If the target of a Coordinated Order chooses to Dodge or Reset as his ARO, then his Roll is compared in Face to Face against all attacking Rolls."

    Note that it says "all" attacking Rolls.
     
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  7. solkan

    solkan Well-Known Member

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    See Dodge:
    • Allows the user to make a Face to Face Roll to evade one or more simultaneous enemy Attacks.
    See Dodge several lines later:
    Dodging Hacking Programs and Comms Attacks

    Dodge does not allow the user to evade Attacks caused by Hacking Programs or Comms Attacks, but the Reset Skill does.​

    The context for Coordinated Orders is this:
    • Reactive troopers may choose which of the coordinated troopers they will declare their ARO against, and are not obligated to choose the same target.
    That's what the later passage is adjusting:
    If the target of a Coordinated Order chooses to Dodge, Change Facing, Engage or Reset as his ARO, then his Roll is Face to Face against attacking Rolls.​

    And all that that means is that the Dodge, Change Facing, Engage, or Reset is applied to all of the enemy actions instead of just the enemy that the ARO was declared against. It doesn't override Dodge and Reset where they disclaim opposition.
     
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  8. Diphoration

    Diphoration Well-Known Member
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    Dodge already mentions that it can dodge multiple attacks.

    Why would it specify a special case for coordinated attack and mention that it is a "Face to Face against all attacking Rolls" if it only affects the regular things?
     
  9. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    no lol, you cant dodge a Comms Attack
     
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  10. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Because when you are facing a coordinated attack, you can only ARO against 1 of the opposing trooper.

    Without this precision, there will be doubt if Dodge works only against the trooper you ARO against or if it works against all coordinated trooper.



    Regarding dodge vs jammer : jammer is a comm attack. Comm attack is defined by the rules as "Comms Attack. The use of this Special Skill or piece of Equipment is a form of Attack that allows the target to declare Reset as a response.". Only reset works agains it.
     
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  11. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    And yet somehow it's both a BS attack and not Comms Equipment. Jammers are such bullshit...
     
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  12. Arkhos94

    Arkhos94 Well-Known Member

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    Yes we all want to fry jammer with BLACKOUT or an E/M attack but CB won't allow us to do it
     
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  13. Ogid

    Ogid Well-Known Member

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    That wording is unfortunate at best. I think no one play it like that but that line should be reworded, it says clearly face to face versus all attacks.
     
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  14. Thaddius

    Thaddius Well-Known Member

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    I say let's stick with the interpretation that you can neither reset nor dodge jammers because Ghazi, hecklers and Zulu cobras are overcosted
     
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  15. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    Even background-wise it shouldn't be Comms Equipment. Unlike Hacking Devices, Repeaters etc. it's not covered by "The technology of this piece of Equipment depends on signals and communications.". It's a brute-force directed EM pulse.
     
  16. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    seriously mate, enough stirring, its not effective satire and you are just contributing to the general malaise in the rules forum. Its honestly not really funny man
     
  17. Ginrei

    Ginrei Well-Known Member

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    I'd suggest keeping that in your back pocket for a tournament. If you're ever put into such a situation bring it up and see which way the TO crumbles.

    However, if you don't want to upset anyone, just fall in line and do as you're told here.
     
  18. TheRedZealot

    TheRedZealot Well-Known Member
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    Etiquette is important, please remember to treat your TOs, and Opponents in a respectful way. If you have rules concerns you think are likely to come up please reach out to your TO as soon as you can. Cause I know it makes my life a hell of a lot easier.
     
  19. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    I am so, so, so not looking forward to Jammers on all the Haqq and Pan O SpecOps at Interplanetario. Enough that it made me consider not going. Not only can they be linked, but they can be Holo1 for Haqq.

    In a coordinated order with Olo1 on the Jammer guy... you won't even -know- you needed to/could Reset, if their first skill was Move.

    Complete and total game-breaking bullshit, that weapon. And I say this as someone who often brings 2 to competitive games if I know the other players outskill me. Definitely a crutch.
     
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  20. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    You'll have a pretty good idea, though. If they have no visible Spec-Ops then any coordinating troopers in your ZoC should be assumed to have either Jammers or Hacking Devices. If some of the troopers are in LoF and others aren't then you're screwed anyway, even without Holo1.
     
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