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Does disabled Comms Equipment generate AROs?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Mahtamori, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    For the benefit of @Arkhos94 and the unresolved questions list.

    I don't think we ever managed to resolve this one in the New FAQ Stealth thread as it got off track.

    Does a disabled Comms Equipment still generate ARO for Hacking and Assault Hacking Devices?
    A) No, a Hacking Program only grants ARO when it can have an effect on the target.
    B) Yes, just like against a trooper Reseting to clear IMM-2, a Disabled Trooper will still generate an ARO.

    Why is this relevant?
    There are several hackers in game, particularly skirmishing Killer Hackers, who both have Stealth and can combine their order with ARO-generating units such as Deployable Repeater carrying troopers or link in a Fireteam with troopers who have Comms Equipment such as Kuang Shi Control Devices. Moving inside the ZoC of an enemy Repeater will thus yield unopposed Hacking Attacks because the enemy Hacker(s) can't even Reset (it is not their own ZoC) yet still has an ARO against the Comms Equipment.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I don't understand the reasoning behind this, could you explain it?
     
  3. DarkPhoenixx

    DarkPhoenixx New Member

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    So, basically, guy with broken Kuang Shi control device can bait ARO by being in coordinated order with a hacker, target not being able to respond to hacker (Stealth) hacking him as second skill cos ARO wasted Blackouting broken device.

    Well, that gave me a headache trying to piece this together.
     
  4. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    In writing out the two options I fully expect B to be the correct answer, but it is like DarkPhoenixx writes all about a large amount of units able to abuse Coordinated Orders and a rare few able to abuse Fireteams to force Normal rolls and risk-free against enemy Hacking Devices, Assault Hacking Devices and Hacking Device Plus' (but curiously not EVO Hacking Devices)
    Particularly the Crane AHD + Celestial Guard Kuang Shi Control Device combo.
     
  5. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    That doesn't really answer my question - what is the rules argument for not getting an ARO?

    Disabled stops the owner from using the item, it doesn't remove the item.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Wish you'd answered that as clearly previously... :face_with_rolling_eyes:
     
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  7. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    This is not a rules argument - intuitively, I think a lot of people are going to assume that a disabled hacker is immune to further hacking. If their hacking device has been rendered non-functional, what, exactly, is the opponent hacker targeting?
     
    meikyoushisui and Willen like this.
  8. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    I don't remember answering it before.
     
  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Think about a (disabled) KSCD and a (functional) Killer hacker w/ stealth in a Coordinated order, attacking an Assault Hacker without Sixth Sense.

    The Assault Hacker has a valid ARO to the KSCD (Blackout), so will be unable to declare blackout against the stealth hacker.
     
  10. toadchild

    toadchild Premeasure

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    Yes, I get the rules interaction. I was just talking from a purely fluff perspective.
     
  11. Gero

    Gero Well-Known Member

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    @toadchild
    From a Purely fluff perspective, you can’t just hack with gestures and interact with something like interfaces at a suitable speed if you are using just your body.

    You need your brain, not your mind but really, actually, your brain, the raw processing capabilities of a biological brain far surpass many supeecomputers theoretically, so in theory every hacker would need Brain and/or Neurological implants that would allow him to process the data he is using as a weapon in an open battlefield, in an efficient manner, these implants are usually cybernetic of course and through them they connect to their Hacking Device.

    Now consider the following, only the most intrusive and destructive hacking measures or programs destroy everything data, software and Hardware.

    However why would you isolate an enemy trooper, destroying his comms equipment completely from a Fluff Perspective? Considering this could give him the element of surprise and diminishing the chance of tracing him through the network?

    My Answer is you don’t destroy the hardware but only the software or operating system, making it unable to respond or answer to any of the users commands (disabled not destroyed is the state) while you can trace biometrical data from the point of birth to the arc of his piss when he was drunk that only time in life.
    As well as being able to squeeze through very clearly damaging and destructive offensive measures (ie burnt front lobe through overload of electricity all the way from the malfunctioning device to the implants in his grey matter) or intrusive and tracing possibilities (for data and keeping him at a disadvantage) effortlessly and effective.
    Also, most people in Infinity at least in the armies have a Cube i.e: a Pseudo chip that backups all your biometrical and synaptic data for possible reanimation, that is actually an implant.
     
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  12. daszul

    daszul Well-Known Member

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    That does not sound reasonable to me.
    On the one hand a software error could be fixed by a reboot (reset),
    and on the other hand if an Engineer (not a hacker) can fix it,
    it must be a hardware problem.

    But yeah, as a hacker can be killed by hacking attacks,
    there must be some kind of neurological link involved.

    But as a hacker with disabled device is not isolated,
    his 'comlink' must still be working.

    Me too thinks that this is wired:
    A Scavenger picking up a hacking device becomes a hacker,
    and remains a hacker even if this device gets disabled?

    (And if the hacker from whom he took the device gets healed,
    that hacker is still a hacker but without device?)
     
  13. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Using Scavenger also executes the Coup de Grace skill on the target.
     
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  14. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    I will fully admit that you have to do some serious fluff-fu in order to justify this interaction, but the RAW is quite clear in this regard. You are a hacker if, at any point in the game, you have a hacking device (whether or not it is still functional).