Seriously... Thus the other quote, in which Retreat was defined NOT as "Puntos de Ejército", but "total de la Lista de Éjercito". You can keep going circles all you want, there is a clear and very obvious difference between English and Spanish rules. Which one is correct is, while important, irrelevant at this point, since it's something only @HellLois can solve. And I am against a game in which I can come, win iniciative, deploy ALREADY IN RETREAT, and win.
http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Retreat! In game terms, each player must, at the beginning of their Active Turn, during the Tactical Phase, make a count of their surviving troops. For this purpose, consider any troops that have not yet been placed on the table (Airborne Deployment, Hidden Deployment...) as survivors. If the sum of the survivors' Cost in points is equal to or less than 25% of the points available for building the Army List, then that army enters a state of Retreat!. This is the only point where the timing is addressed. At the beginning of your turn you sum up your survivors. THEN, if it if below the value yaddayaddayadda. Let's see Baggage http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Baggage Baggage makes its bearer worth an additional 20 Victory Points. This Victory Points increase must be applied when calculating the Retreat! percentage of the Army List. Players apply that increase when calculating the Victory Points the player has during the Retreat! Check of the Active Turn's Tactical Phase. Those are the effects of an Automatic Equipment. If it stop working (the Baggage model is null), then you cannot claim any if those effects. Clearer than that...
a couple of pages of back and forth was just debate about the spanish language and what spanish words and sentences means. either the spanish is the same as the english or the spanish is different. but in any case, the english rules are clear. I could understand if they want to bring the debate over on the spanish side of the forums and summon HellLois over there.
The problem is that there are 2 versions of the rules. In the english lecture, you will calculate Retreat in a way that allows me to make a 74points list and start in retreat, thus depriving my opponent from any chance to play. In the Spanish lecture, you calculate the Retreat value on base of the models you placed on the list, so a 74 points list need to get down to 19 points before Retreat is declared. This is not a case of "Spanish rules wording", but of "different rules in different languages". Which is relevant, since players of both versions interact.
I know the general consensus of this thread runs completely counter to my local meta's understanding.
Its an automatic skill It has no game effect when null state. It doesnt get clearer than that, and thats certainly what seems agreed in the first page of this thread
When I refer to "my Meta", it's usually just a reference to the group of 10-20 players in Brisbane I commonly play with - not Australia on the whole. Mostly because I'm yet to play a game beyond the bounds of my own state's lines. I raised the contents of this thread in FB chat and they were of the opposite opinion to what has been put forward by IJW and the like as the answer. Probably, per some of the early posts, because the example given for how it affects Army points doesn't make reference to the Baggage being alive or not - it doesn't imply this varies. Also, the chart makes no reference to the baggage being alive in the way that @C0MR4DE 's post on the second page does. It is laid out somewhat misleading-ly.
The game is clear. Read rules like null state, check the baggage rule. And, if you dont belive it, just check the official army. + This Victory Points increase must be applied when calculating the Retreat! percentage of the Army List. Players apply that increase when calculating the Victory Points the player has during the Retreat! Check of the Active Turn's Tactical Phase.
