fun! Another discrepancy with the Spanish version! Translated literally: "If the sum of the cost of all surviving troops is equal to, or less than, 25% of the Army List's total, then that player's Army will declare itself in state of Retreat!!!!" So in the english rules, the total is taken from the Available points for listbuilding that army + baggage bot modifiers; in the Spanish rules the total is taken from the Army List + baggage Bots... God, I *love* this game -.-
There's no difference. The Army List's total is the number of points available, not the number of points used: http://infinitythewiki.com/es/Lista_de_Ejército: La cuantía de Puntos de Ejército de una Lista de Ejército determina las tropas que podrá emplear el jugador durante la partida.
Hunting Party works, i was thinking about the 5 antenna, i think it got removed now. But basically, any control/designate antenna can give you a good chance to score that 1 or 2 OP. Acquisition for example, you just need base contact with the tech-coffin and no one is allowed to deploy already in base contact. Does DataTracker still works ? (i know you lose Lt order.) So you could smoke the objective and run in there (with 16" DZ) for 5OP. The Grid, if you designate 1 antenna vs opponent 0 gives you 4OP. Or 1 easy to reach connected console in Engineering Deck. Or even Frostbyte which i played not long ago. the datatracker can activate the heating units if he reach the central line, but even if he doesn't you'll get 3OP for secure the zone and 3OP for killing more (you have "74 - your DT" pts in Null State vs your opponent's something) 74Pts sure is a weird format but could be possible for some factions.
Could you explain what the difference is? The Army List points are explicitly the number of points available to spend, not the amount of points that you've spent.
It requires to look into other parts of the page (btw, the hyperlink of "Puntos de Ejército" leads to another page, Attributes). The problem is that nowhere does that contradicts what I mentioned before: AND In here it boils down that yeah, you play at 300 points "Army Points", but there is a difference between that and the "Army List", which is the value referred while talking about it in the Retreat part. Mind you, I hope the spanish version holds because if the english version does, nothing prevents a "I deploy a 70pts list, go first, score 1-2 objectives, and win 3-0 in moments preventing my opponent to even play". Not that I care one way or the other, but if I do the effort of going to a tournament I expect to play something (barring an avalanche of crits, like the one I sufferend in the last one... 9 critics against a 10 orders MO army, vs my 10 orders greeks. Little to do there, but that is the dice's fault)
Is it okay with you if I hope the English version holds in this case so they reduce the Retreat! special case that's so common?
Nothing in there contradicts what I said. The Army List's total is still the number of points available, not the number used.
No, the idea here is that I hope the version in which I present to the torunament and then deploy this list: ALEPH ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 6 NETROD . (0 | 4) NETROD . (0 | 4) NETROD . (0 | 4) DEVA Lieutenant Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23) PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10) PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21) LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8) 0.5 SWC | 74 Points Open in Infinity Army Go first, and I start in Retreat, using 4 command tokens to turn the irregular orders of the Netrods and Lamedh into regular ones, thus having 5 orders for the Mk2 & the Mk5 to do stuff, is the version that won't hold. Please do note I do NOT present a 300pts list then deploy 74pts, but I present a 74 points list, deploying 100% of my troops. But in the spanish version, Retreat is calculated from what is defined as the sum of the costs of the units listed in my army list, so if I present that 74pts list I just placed, I won't go into Retreat until I have only 19 points or less, while in the english version Retreat is counted from the MAXIMUM points the sum of the costs of the units listed in my army list can reach, thus making my 74pts list an "I deploy in Retreat state, play my first turn and we end". And since Courage (granted by NWI) means neither Deva nor Proxies suffer the Retreat effects (just the Loss of Lt that situation causes) I can grab a Supply box and win 3-0 Tournament points in minutes.
Just to clarify, what I'm hoping is that in the future this will not end the mission, you'll just field that list, immediately go into retreat, and your opponent will get 3 full turns to basically pick off your troops and push all your buttons. Or at least that the rule is changed such that the game ends at the end of that game turn, i.e. with that proposed list your opponent would also get a turn.
No you haven't, which is my point. You are quoting a place in which the Army List points is defined, while in the Retreat the Army Points list is NOT used. The LIST POINTS, defined as Sum of Cost of included troops, is used. If you prefer the "I make a 74pts list then deploy and play first, then win because you cannot play" to endure, good for you, I disagree that's the desirable option. That would take away the risk of "kill the enemy in my 1st turn, they go into retreat, then I can't play anymore", and people would gleefully kill without measure knowing they would have another turn to do stuff.
Considering the first text you quoted: no it wouldn't. Trust me, just think about it for a minute here - all it changes is to make sure that the player going second is guaranteed an extra turn if the player going first ends up in Retreat! If second player gets into Retreat! then nothing is changed. If considering the text you erased - how often have you put people into retreat during No Retreat missions or missions with normal Retreat! conditions? Happens so seldom that a TO is usually called over in our meta to resolve things like Baggage and points limits, and that's counting Retreat! during 2nd or 3rd turns. Personally I've been put into Retreat! once and never been able to put people in Retreat! (even when I tried). Even my infamously suicidal Aragoto lists (with more than 50% casualty rates during first turn tend to avoid Retreat! (I really suck at playing Aragoto)
I did... Which points to "start retreat if [sum (survivors cost)] =< [sum (Lista Ejército)*0.25]: Then, from http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/es/Lista_de_Ejército Where (Lista Ejército) is defined as [sum(cost troops)] with the constraint that it cannot be greater than the "Puntos de Ejército" (Army points).
Where is the second 'suma'? The sentence only talks about summing the cost for the surviving troops. Otherwise the Retreat threshold would vary all the time depending on the exact points cost of units taken, with (for example) a 296pt list would have a 74pt Retreat threshold. Question - why do you think the Retreat chart and the 'Retreat with Baggage' chart both list the game size, rather than arbitrary numbers?
Hello, I think it is more easy than all this. At least that is how I understand baggage works: BAGGAGE AUTOMATIC EQUIPMENT Non-Lootable, Obligatory REQUIREMENTS EFFECTS Baggage makes its bearer worth an additional 20 Victory Points. This Victory Points increase must be applied when calculating the Retreat! percentage of the Army List. Players apply that increase when calculating the Victory Points the player has during the Retreat! Check of the Active Turn's Tactical Phase. In the same way, players must consider that increase in such missions or scenarios in which players must calculate their Victory Points. If you include in your 300 list a piece with baggage of 8 points, in order to calculate retreat your amount of points counts like 20, so you have 320 points instead of 300. So you will be on retreat when you stay under 80 points and not if 75. But what happens when your baggage is unnconscius or dead, pretty easy, you have lost 28 points, not 8. If you do so it is almost the same that not count baggage when this is dead. In other words: 320-28 it is almost the same as 300-8 to retreat calculating porpouses. I hope I were capable of explain my self. Best regards fellows!!
That is not how rules work... To calculate if you are in Retreat, you have to count your Victory Points, that is the Army Point of your SURVIVING troops + Baggage Bonus. If your Baggage is dead, his Automatic Equipment cease to work, so you are in Retreat with less than 75 points on the table.
here: "Para crear una Lista de Ejército" and "sumar su coste": To create an Army List, the player must select troops among those available to his faction (PanO, YJ, Ariadna...) and add their Cost together. Army List is thus defined as the sum of the cost of all troops aligned. Which means, incidentally, Equipment like AI beacons might not count for that XDDD Yeah, but is the threshold recalculated? Id' say you would go into retreat at a higher number than 75.
You're ignoring text in your own quote that that says otherwise. La suma total del Coste de las tropas que conforman una Lista de Ejército debe ser siempre igual o inferior a la cantidad de Puntos de Ejército acordada para disputar la partida.
