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Does dead baggage continue to modify retreat threshold?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Captain Spud, Oct 15, 2018.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Including the judges at the Interplanetario, it seems.
     
  2. Alkasyn

    Alkasyn Well-Known Member

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    It's nothing new that Interplanetario plays the rules wrong. It is bound to happen on a tournament that big.
     
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  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Only because CB has done a poor job of making their rules clear.
     
  4. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    Never mind, looks like I misread some things.

    In any case, I think that having both your current value and your threshold changing from turn to turn is a bad design.
     
  5. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is weird and for a long time thought it would stay at /320 for the whole 3 turns,
    but losing a baggage bot with recalculation : go from 320/320 to 292/300 (97% surviving). while without recalculation : go from 320/320 to 292/320 (91% surviving).
    So the recalculation helps you even further with refraining your army from retreating (retreat being when you have less than 25% surviving) compared to doing it the logical way.
     
  6. Robock

    Robock Well-Known Member

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    thinking about it more, you count compared to /300, not /299, which makes thing easier I guess but you do start the game at 99.7% surviving. What if you decide to start the game at 24% surviving ? Say we play 300 Pts 6 SWC, and i make a 74 pts 6 swc lists, starting first turn, i move a bit my models then we go in end of game scoring... ? but when going second you'd lose (or the opponent expect you to have a ton of HD/AD and plays defensively).
     
  7. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    I don't actually care whether it ends up in a way that makes it easier or harder to go into retreat. What I care about is whether it's easier or harder to play.
     
  8. C0MR4DE

    C0MR4DE Malfunctioning Unidron

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    I already linked the pictures from army here and to the old forum about it, and had a discussion. The main problems comes from N2 and the "we always did like this". Roboc: if you make an army from 300 point and u only use up 74, you will be start in retreat!
    Read the rules please.
    Retreat tresholds:
    100 point: 25
    150 point: 38
    200 point: 50
    300 point: 75
    320 point (1 baggage alive):80
    340 point (2 baggage alive):85
    360 point (3 baggage alive):90 TAK
    380 point (4 baggage alive):95 TAK
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly his point.

    He makes a 74 point army that can accomplish 1, possibly 2, objectives and all he needs to do is accomplish those in order to win some 60% of all ITS missions, because only Robock will get to have a turn, his opponent won't. Example:

    [​IMG]Hunting Party done easy 55% of the time
    ──────────────────────────────────────────────────

    [​IMG]2 [​IMG]5 [​IMG]4
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] MUTTAWI'AH Chain Rifle, E/Marat, Jammer, Smoke Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 5)
    [​IMG] GHULAM Lieutenant Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)
    [​IMG] HUNZAKUT (Forward Observer, Deployable Repeater) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Antipersonnel Mines / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 18)
    [​IMG] FARZAN (Forward Observer) Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 23)

    0 SWC | 73 Points

    Open in Infinity Army
     
    #29 Mahtamori, Oct 16, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2018
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  10. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    If you really want to make it work you run the maximum number or Veteran or Religious cheerleaders.
     
  11. Ben Kenobi

    Ben Kenobi Well-Known Member

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    You have 4 Command Tokens to spent for canceling the retreat :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    74 points is a very difficult limit to get useful stuff into. The list I made has one Religious Infiltrator and would rely on popping 3 CTs to make those Irregular orders from the Mutta's Regular while having them rush forward to pop smoke as close to the objectives as possible using their Impetuous Order. The last CT is saved in case the Hunzakut goes down without flipping the objective in order to make the Farzan ignore Retreat! since Activate on Objectives are Attacks.
    Religious and Veterans tend to be fairly expensive, so just stuffing the lists won't do. I did make a slightly "better" list that gets one extra order but has WIP 13 on their specialists and LT compared to the Haqq one, and that's Securitate + Zero Nomad list
     
    inane.imp likes this.
  13. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I was thinking Sec + Zero as the way to optimise it.
     
  14. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    That doesn't work.

    IMPORTANT!
    In a Retreat! situation the Impetuous Phase of the Player Turn is not applied, so those Extremely Impetuous, Impetuous, and Frenzy troopers cannot use their Impetuous Order.
     
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  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Does that also include Religious Impetuous troops who aren't affected by the effects of Retreat! ?
     
  16. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Because that part of Retreat applies to the Turn not the Troopers.
     
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  17. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    There is no Impetuous Phase. So it doesn't matter what Skills the trooper has that might ignore Retreat.
     
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  18. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Mk2 AHD Proxy + mk5 SMG Proxy (31pts), add 3 Netrods and 1 Deva combi (+31pts) and you have: 1 irregular order for the Proxy, 1 irregular order for the Deva (both have Courage, thanks to the NWI rule) and 3 orders from the Netrods... that is 62pts. You can even fit a Lamedh for a 4th order, starting with 70pts and in Retreat, but needing only to turn irregular orders from antennas and bots into regular ones, I think (you can go lower if needed using Thorakites, though, at 12pts per order).

    Shame your Retreat Threshold would be 25% of 70pts, not of 300.
     
  19. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
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    If the sum of the survivors' Cost in points is equal to or less than 25% of the points available for building the Army List, then that army enters a state of Retreat!.
     
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  20. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    No, it's 25% of 300.

    " the sum of the survivors' Cost in points is equal to or less than 25% of the points available for building the Army List, then that army enters a state of Retreat!."

    Edit: what IJW said, again. :)