1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hemos actualizado nuestra PolĂ­tica de Privacidad acorde con la nueva RGPD. +Info // We've updated our Privacy Policy to comply with the GDPR. +Info
    Dismiss Notice

Dodge & Engage while prone vs template weapons

Discussion in 'Rules' started by sebastiaan, Jan 19, 2018.

  1. sebastiaan

    sebastiaan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hi all,

    Have a question about the dodge/engage ability while prone, and then a follow up irt template weapons.

    Does Prone have any negative effect on dodge/engage? Range or role wise. And is there is a negative impact on dodging/engaging when performing it right trough a template?

    I ask as last week i was in a situation where someone started prone at the top of the stairs, and i was trying to flush him out with a Hvy Flamer. Stairs blocked LoS as he was prone, so i had to come half way up. However, he had Kinematics (so dodge range is 3"), so he would simple ARO Engage. Because i only had a template its not even a F2F roll, and because engage is a dodge, we would completely ignore my attack if successful. So a natural Ph12.

    That just didn't sound right to me.

    i know dodge vs template ignores the template when successful, but does it apply to engage as well?

    And does it remain a natural Ph roll?


    Thanks.
     
  2. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,416
    Likes Received:
    11,072
    Prone has no effect on Dodge/Engage range, as those are both a fixed 2" + Kinematika. Prone affects your MOV value, but that's not used for Dodge/Engage distances.

    Engage has the same wording for templates, see Effect bullet four on http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Engage
    • If the Roll is successful, then the user Dodges all Attacks against him and moves into base to base contact with his target at the final location previously declared.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  3. sebastiaan

    sebastiaan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    But doesn't that sound a bit 'off'...

    He rolls almost his full movement distance into CC and there is no roll i can interrupt him with. And its even my turn.
     
  4. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Don't use direct templates so close, or at least shoot them in the back for a - 3 to their ph roll. It's never really 'your' turn in infinity, you'll have an advantage by being the active player, but there are still a few traps you can fall into that put you at a disadvantage, unfortunately you found one here. :confused:
     
    ShadowDrake777, chromedog and ijw like this.
  5. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,416
    Likes Received:
    11,072
    As cazboab says, shoot them with something that will force a Face to Face roll.
     
  6. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    You can use your second skill declaration of the order to move away, then place Engaging model however it's convenient for you. While doing that, stick him onto the wall using your ability to place opponent's trooper upon successful engage to limit opponent's unit even more. You don't kill it this way, but you made it problematic for it to interfere with your business on that turn.

    The downside is, obviously, that if he fails his Engage roll, you waste your order. I think.
     
    #6 Barrogh, Jan 19, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    7,321
    Likes Received:
    9,178
    Don't do this. Doing this is a douchebag move.

    Sticking the model on the wall, while not expressly illegal, means that model can't declare any useful skills should it ever be activated until someone else has shot or stabbed the model it is Engaged to death/unconsciousness.
     
    toadchild and inane.imp like this.
  8. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2017
    Messages:
    1,954
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    I used to be like you, then I took Sirlin to the knee.

    Seriously though, I know Engage rule needs a fix.

    However, even if you don't stick anyone to the wall, you still have a lot of options opened to you if opponent Engages.
     
  9. sebastiaan

    sebastiaan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ok so in short what i learned:
    • Dont use template in engage distance, anything else (even pistol) is better.
    PS if i move, and he engages with ARO, if I use move as second skill, does he them move with me?
     
    #9 sebastiaan, Jan 28, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2018
  10. cazboab

    cazboab Member (phrasing)

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,332
    Yes to both.

    If he passes the engage roll he'll be in base to base with you wherever you end up.
     
  11. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    537
    Yes.
     
  12. Papa Bey

    Papa Bey Clueless Wonder. Still.

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    562
    Likes Received:
    537
    Depends.

    Compare your odds of winning a Face to Face roll with said pistol (or whatever) versus his odds of successfully performing an Engage. Or just shooting you in the face.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    It depends on what your opponent declares in ARO. The point of the template is to try force their hand into using a dodge/engage skill both of which are non lethal options. If you don't have a template they can use suppression or something both of which can kill your model, the presence of the template encourages your opponent to use a non lethal option. Once they declare dodge/engage however you don't actually use the template, use a gun that forces a F2F roll.
     
  14. sebastiaan

    sebastiaan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ah! So i only have to declare the weapon i use during the shooting? They told me i had to say which one i use.....
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    You have to say which one you're using when you declare the shot, but if you're the active player you will if you're smart, wait to declare your BS Attack after your opponent has already declared their ARO. So have your model move or idle to force an ARO from your opponent, then pick the best option from your array of weapons.

    If he dodges, don't use the template weapon. If he decides to shoot, consider using the template weapon if you don't care about tanking hits from a normal roll.
     
  16. sebastiaan

    sebastiaan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2018
    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    1
    But cant he also wait with his ARO until your 2nd short skill? He only has 1 ARO but he can wait until after your 2nd short one, right???
     
  17. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    No. You have to take your ARO as soon as you're eligible for one, this includes if it's a shitty ARO like change facing. If all you're given the option to do is Change Facing then you either Change Facing or declare you're not doing anything with the ARO.

    You can only delay your ARO in specific situations like against camo markers.
     
  18. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    4,498
    Likes Received:
    5,355
    Quite often you're better off CCing an Engaging trooper. Particularly if you have something with a DTW (a lot of troops with DTWs are better in CC than they are at shooting).

    CC vs Engage is a WEIRD exception that allows you to declare a CC Attack without being in B2B. If you win the FTF they don't move and you get to do a CC attack to them. Basically they try to dodge towards you, you punch them in the face, they don't move.
     
  19. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2017
    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    2,843
    Given that you are not b2b with an enemy which is a requirement of declaring CC attacks, how are you managing this exactly?
     
  20. ijw

    ijw Wargaming Trader, Freelance Editor (UK)
    Warcor

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2017
    Messages:
    5,416
    Likes Received:
    11,072
    Because the Engage rules say so.
     
    toadchild likes this.