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Dodge and second MOV value

Discussion in 'Rules' started by QueensGambit, Nov 24, 2020.

  1. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Oh, ok, new question then! I think we all got confused somewhere in there.

    I'll take a stab at it.

    Our hero the Asawira is in Difficult Terrain and prone. He declares Dodge, remaining prone.

    We know from ijw's answer above that Prone halves the base Dodge movement and also the Asawira's bonus Dodge movement.

    We don't have an answer from ijw on how Difficult Terrain affects Dodge, but we have Solkan's convincing argument that the -1" does not apply to Dodge. It follows that the Asawira Dodges 2". His usual 4" Dodge movement is halved by being Prone, but is unaffected by being in Difficult Terrain.

    No, that's the one that ijw has answered. It's 2". 2/2 + 2/2 because base movement and bonus movement are both halved by Prone.
     
  2. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Yeah - I'm confusing myself. Basically what I'm trying to ask is:

    Why does Wolfy McWolfFace with Dodge(+2") Move 4/2 -1 = 1" while Prone in Difficult Terrain but Dodge (2+2)/2 = 2" while Prone in Difficult Terrain? Or does Wolfy McWolfFace actually Dodge 3" while Prone in Difficult Terrain [2/2 +2 =3"]?

    Surely the order of operations should be the same for both Move and Dodge?

    Or, to distil it down: what is the order of operations for Movement Mods? Is this different for Dodge in comparison to anything else?
     
  3. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    It's because Difficult Terrain doesn't appear to reduce Dodge movement at all.

    In normal terrain, Wolfwolfwolf would Move 2" while Prone, and Dodge 2" while Prone. If he's in Difficult Terrain, his Move distance is reduced by 1" but his Dodge distance isn't affected.

    That hasn't been confirmed by ijw, but it's the result Solkan proposes above, for pretty convincing reasons.

    Is the problem that it seems weird to be able to Dodge further than you can Move? That occurs in other circumstances as well. Our Asawira, standing in normal terrain, can Move-Move 6-2 but can Move-Dodge 6-4. So it doesn't seem that implausible that there's a situation where wolfman can Move 1" but Dodge 2".
     
  4. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    No my issue is that the Difficult Terrain Mod is not halved by Prone but you're saying that the the Dodge (+X) Mod is.

    Either mods to the move value should all be halved by Prone or none should.

    You're saying that the formula is:

    ([Move Value]+[Skill Mod])/[1 or 2 if Prone] + [Applicable Difficult Terrain Mod]
     
  5. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    Oh, ok. I guess that comes from another thread?

    The relevant line from Dodge is "While in this state, Troopers have both their MOV values and movement bonuses halved". So it's pretty clear that the -1" from Difficult Terrain doesn't get halved, since it's a movement penalty not a movement bonus.

    Does the other thread say that the +1" movement bonus for a trooper with the Terrain skill in Difficult Terrain doesn't get halved when the trooper is Prone? Is that the issue?
     
  6. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    What are penalties but negative bonuses? :) (Or, to be less flippant, they're both MODs - why are we treating positive and negative MODs differently?)

    So the formula is ([Move Value]+[Bonuses])/[1 or 2 if Prone] + [Penalties]

    That seems simple. :P
     
    #26 inane.imp, Dec 15, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2020
  7. QueensGambit

    QueensGambit SecUnit

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    ...because the Prone rule states that it halves movement bonuses but doesn't state that it halves movement penalties or movement MODs?

    I'm still not sure what your question is. Is it just that you don't like the way that Prone works with Difficult Terrain?
     
  8. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    We already have precedence for this, though. MODs in round brackets after a skill are treated differently if they are "bonuses" or "penalties". Not that this makes anything any clearer, but there it is :).
     
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  9. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    I no longer have a question, I was going "OK, so it works like this then?" to confirm we were all saying the same thing.
     
    QueensGambit likes this.
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