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Do you like the blatant "inspiration"?

Discussion in 'Access Guide to the Human Sphere' started by Keyrott, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    The trick I think is being moderate about including topics/stereotypes that are associated with ongoing hot debates.
     
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  2. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    There isn't anything English in Infinity, that I know of.

    I would usually consider myself British, I just make the distinction because there is the Caledonian nation.

    I am not sure that I would want there to be anything English, mind. I tend to think the less European influence in Infinity the more I like it. One of the things I always wished about PanO was that it would be portrayed as culturally mostly South American/Indian/Indonesian/Pacific/Australasian, because that's what it is. Kind of disappointed me to find out how European NeoTerra is, with the Italian and German city names etc.

    It would be cool if Europe in the setting wasn't actually part of PanO but was a collection of relatively affluent but peaceful and politically not that important (outside of Earth, at least) minor nations. So you have the PanO territories, the Yu Jing territories, and then you have North America, Europe, Western Asia, Africa and the Middle East as basically being minor nations, relatively depopulated due to emigration to off-world colonies of the Great Powers.
     
  3. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    In fact I think that to avoid too stereotypical "Caricatures" to be a sort of unloved joke then some sort of Poll could be useful. . .

    Like what I believed was done when C.B. released the "U.S.Ariadna Boxed Set" there was a lot of previous discussions by Fourmites that declared to be "Proud Americans" (and some also that claimed to be Service Soldiers / Formers Service Soldiers, such as @Section9 that we ALL know was part of U.S.Navy Submarine Crews !!) that discussed properties and "Unpropriety" of "All American Warriors". . .

    While the Boxed Set is mainly composed of well-armoured "Grunts" that seems to be JUST a "G.I. Joe" styled take on Delta Force / Navy Seal kind of Special Forces, then the "Cow Boy Add Ons" of the Hardcases and the Desperados were often declared "Unnecessary Wild West Roadshow Nostalgia". . .

    Similar uproar was made for the FIRST release of the Female Caledonian Volunteer, as many who claimed to have ZERO Problems with "True Sons Of Scotia" Males proudly wearing a kilt, then immediatly said the High-Stockings / Kilt-ed Miniskirt kind of Character was not representing a "Highlander Clan Daughter" but rather a "Cosplayer Hooker / Streetwalker" (or, at best, as a Pseudo-Highschooler Pornstar hailing from Edinburgh or even far nothern part of Great Britain !!). . .

    While Corvus Belli Staff said the Piece was imagined as a "Comical One Piece" (such as are now the "Oversexed" sensual action figures on display of the "Bootleg Limited Edition" !!) the Uproar did not disappear and now the Minature is re-done (both in Concept Art and in phisical piece) with plain looking "Quilted Pantaloons" but staid otherwise identical for the rest. . .!!

    While the "Dragon Lady" of Yujing does not seems to Me to evoke / incite the same uproar of disapprovation from Chinese Heritage Forumites, despite being clad in a Cheongsam China-Doll Dress and a pose that, at best, seems to convey the phrase "Waiting at the Hong-Kong Docks for Sailors on Shore-Leave"

    At the same time the Nazarova Kum Twins are effectively not done like "Badass Biker Ladies" but rather the "Hapless Stripper Girlfriends" of some nasty Hell's Angel Chapter, but this, apparently, does not enrage anyone. . .

    From its very inception the Artists of Corvus Belli have chosen a "Inspirational Sources" from Young Boys Manga where all the Males are Stereotyped and the "Babes" seems to be Teenager High Schooler (but "endowed" with Siliconized Pornstars phisiques) "Moe Gals" from ALL manner of "Shohen Jump" Comics where Masamune Shirow's inspired art seems to be the more sedated (I'm thinking about the "Classicals" like Appleseed or Ghost-In-The-Shell, where "Hentai" is at a bare minimum, not His more recent stuff that is beyond even the sluttiest Fetish Porn !!). . .

    It is also to represent the fact that for 90% of the sexually active and body-conscious PEOPLE OF THE GAME UNIVERSE there are all manners of Cosmetic Biografts and Genetic Enhancements to provide for Exotic Beauty even in hard-as-nails "Warrior Babes" (and on a far side of the Spectrum we have "Primitives" like Ariadnans and Corregidorans that have Hard-Working Muscular Girls in their forces, and on the other side A.L.E.P.H. Gynoid Female Frames that are actually "Built In" for maximum visual efficacy). . .

    It is all in the eye of the Beholder, even for Cultural Stereotypes. . .

    I'm Italian and I will be offended to be put in the same "New York TV-Movie Cauldron" of unstilishly dressed Mafia Gangers, hapless Pizza Cooks or "Hoboken Cops" with a dubious Morality Code. . .

    But will admit that, Italians from all part of the Peninsula (the Northern Part is where "High Couture Models" and "Model Wannabes" resides, the Southerner Parts are where a tiny, small % of the Population are REALLY Mafia Mobsters, Corrupted Politicians or "Mob Clients" but this is a very ROUGH Generalization) does not vary overmuch from the stereotypes of the "Holiday In Rome" archetypal "Seductive All-Grabber" that goes full "Tex Avery Wolf-Mode" when an attractive skirt is in sight (especially if it happens to be a Young Foreign Babe Student on Erasmus !!). . .

    This is especially TRUE for "Young Italian MALES" but many Italian GIRLS have their own "Open Hunting Season" when attractive foreigners are involved; just they are far more classy, discreet and discerning in their tastes. . . . .!!!

    This will means that I will be offended if the first 100% Italian Character for Infinity (that is NOT a Faithful Clergy Member like Father Sforza, who could be as well 100% "Old Guard Spanish" as well !!) would be represented as a Skirt-Chasing Fashion-Victim kind of Tunguska Mobster / Corrupted Police Enforcer. . . . .??

    If the Miniature Concept is classy and well drawn, and the Miniature is well done and superbly sculpted / posed (maybe with an innovative "Studio Paintjob" by Angel Giraldez) then I WOULD NOT CARE LESS for "Offending Cultural Jokes". . .

    . . . . .

    By the way C.B. is very fond to to re-done "Fantasy Archetypes" in a Cyberpunk-style; the other typical "Ancient Italy Miniature" is either a Roman Legionary from Julius Caesar's Age or a Mercenary Knight from the "Condottieri Renaissance". . .

    I will so find a sort of A.L.E.P.H. Myrmydon inspired by Russell Crowe "Gladiator", a Pan-O Knight named "Bartolomeo Sforza" or "Giovanni Delle Bande Nere" (in which Mercenary Warband my Direct Ancestors, 20 Generations removed, fought under !!) or EVEN a A.L.E.P.H. Recreation "Tactical Field Engineer" called "Leonardo Da Vinci" not a Joke on My heritage, but rather an interesting homage to the roots of My culture. . .!!

    An Hashashin Elite Operative that hails from Florence and is called "Ezio Auditore" could be too much of a stretch perhaps. . . . .!!!
     
    #83 stevenart74, Mar 1, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
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  4. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting post, but what caught my atention was this...
    Let me Google for a bit... I'll be back, later. :p


    EDIT: LOL, according to Wikipedia he published something called "Wild Wet West". Not very subtle.
     
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  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Few people field Khum troops, @stevenart74 , so I assume they just get "lost among the noise".

    Be grateful you didn't stumble on some of his more... tentacled... works. I'm happy I lost my SAN long ago while having drinks with Nyarlathothep, but things like that still make me thing "wtf" XD
     
  6. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    @xagroth. . .

    Yep, the "Chtulhu" related stuff of Shirow-Sama is especially disturbing. . .

    At least the "Humanoid Stallions" of Wild Wet West are something not so impossible amongst the worse specimens of Pupniks / Chimeras of Bakunin, but honestly found very disturbing the Fish-like "Deep Ones" of the one Manga where a Rabbi's estranged Daughter (a High Schooler Martial Artist of mixed Jewish / Japanese heritage) tries to save Her "Kohai Paramour" for TOO MUCH "fondling" (let's call it in a manner, so to speak. . .!!) by a numbers of disgusting formless things is quite heavy. . .

    Also, what is worse, the "Main Bad" is one of the Star Spawn of Chthulhu (essentially tinier versions of Chthulhu itself), constrained in an Human-sized Body, at a moment decides to "Reward" its main Cultist High Priestess (a Pornstar-bodied baseline human, also Her a powerful hand-to-hand fighter !!) during a car trip in a limousine car. . .

    Obviously You can imagine how was "Delivered" the reward. . .!!

    Curiously the more recent works of Shirow that could be useful for Infinity are something less. . . . .racier; essentially are the misadventures of a bunch of scantily clad, inappropriatedly dressed Cyberpunk Policewoman that tries to hide under Miniskirts all manner of High Caliber Handcannons and Assault Pistols. . . . .when they are not occupied by a rather "Softcore" kind of "Yuri Touching" between Senior Agents and their Apprentices. . . . .!!!

    I own these dubiously books as "Break-Up Gifts" from a past Girlfriend (!!!) and they are in Original Japanese Kanji; if You are perhaps interested could fish somewhere the English-translated titles. . .

    For Me I'll rather stay, as Infinity Comic Inspiration goes, on the various iterations of aforementioned Appleseed / G.I.T.S., or even excellent "French Bandes Dessinèes" like the "Neopolis Collection" by Dargaud Editeurs, when Outrage Official Comic is not enough !!
     
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  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I'm grateful for the offer, but I prefer porn that does not remind me of Ghost in the Shell, AppleSeed, Dominion... Too much visual memory up there.

    And "most recent"... I think those were published at least half a decade ago. Free netsurfing accounted for tons of SAN loss before the bar meeting ^^U
     
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  8. Rizzy

    Rizzy Armchair Strategos L3

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    There are a bunch of "inspired" minis I really like (Saber d'Arc, Van Zant, the Appleseed/Bubblegum Crisis look of most powered armor..) and also a few I don't like (Moderators of the Galaxy and the Suicide Morlocks, though the former is mostly the poses). The ones I don't like I convert, so whatever floats your goat. Even then, there are even more references hidden in my armies. My Morats painted like the 501st Legion, my two Dactyl twins have blue and pink hair, my ISS is themed after the police from the game Oni to name a few.

    I bought a Masamune Shirow artbook at a convention on a whim. After a few pages of weapon designs, robots and hot women in uniform... well, let's just say I did not know lube could get that glossy and I am reasonably sure using batons like that is against regulations.
     
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  9. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    The nanotechnological lube of the future has the best anti-friction effects one could dream of, with the glossy looks of coconut oil. Add transparent slime tentacles to the mix and...

    Now I can't think of Solution Epsilon without feeling confused. Great job, Shirow! -.-
     
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  10. Keyrott

    Keyrott Nomad Handyman

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    WIP 16 Engineer incoming lol
     
  11. Abrilete

    Abrilete Well-Known Member

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    As xagroth, I want to keep my memories of Masamune Shirow clean, and just remember him as the guy who initiated the long running GITS series, a franchise that I love and spans through several media.

    And because of that, I'll try to get that new "not-Motoko" sculpt from the new Japanese box, she'll fit perfectly in my small ALEPH collection.
     
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  12. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    I hope to hell Vedic will give us new profiles. Or I will have to send some to Nomads. And I still don't know what to do with not-celty... well, I can always send her to Haqquislam as a Kum :S

    Fortunately, CB has just allowed the use of any CB model as any troop as long as you clear what is what with the opponent.
     
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  13. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    I'd quite like a Viral Marksman Rifle or Viral 8-24" +3 weapon equivalent, for Haqq, since Marksman Rifles and Viral ammo are totally their deal.

    Or, alternatively, a Viral Ojotnik. You know you love that shit CCCBBBBB
     
  14. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    Most people are too embarrassed to notice it but I think the line between good and bad referances is between cool more obscure nerdy stuff and really lame modern pop cult stuff. I don't want to be a hipster but right?
     
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  15. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    And the degree of "adaptation" from the original source to the Infinity theme in that troop (regarding that, it's better to do so on newly made profiles than existing ones with previous miniatures, since there are no expectations for the mini), plus the more blatant sounds like "let's milk this cash cow without putting effort".
    Also, it's not the same to make a bike rider based on Celty from Durarara!!! than to make the full cast into infinity miniatures... In that regard, not-Killer Croc would have been ok, the same way not-Colossus was, because they were an isolated incident... but the full not- suicide squad? As static morlocks? Too much "inspiration" from the same source at the same time in the same box.
     
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  16. deltakilo

    deltakilo Bear of Butcher bay
    Warcor

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    6-4 mov turn 1, cant use him turn two 4-2 mov turn 3
     
  17. Elric of Grans

    Elric of Grans Well-Known Member

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    They will have to add a new unit classification: 'Beast.' It will be used for things like Antipodes and Morats.

    The new Australian Engineer has a special form of Impetuous where he prioritises Beasts over other units. When he reaches CC with a Beast, he immediately wrestles with it (similar to Berserk rule, but only applies to Beasts). Each beast successfully beaten in CC grants a level of Journalism in Paradisio Rules. One Beast = Journalism L1, Two Beasts = Journalism L2, Three Beasts = Journalism L3.
     
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  18. stevenart74

    stevenart74 Well-Known Member

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    And this Australian Engineer will have a Crocodile Skin "Aussie Rendition" of a stetson hat and a truly monstuous Multi Use Blade. . .

    I imagine He will stare down an Ariadnan "Devil Dog" (in full Dogwarrior Mode with its own "Teseum Ka-Bar") uttering the immortal words of:

    "That's not a Knife. . . . .THAT's a Knife !!!". . . . .
     
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  19. Barrogh

    Barrogh Well-Known Member

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    Erm... That's because kilt/skirt is explicitly male clothing and Caledonian female character in kilt makes as much sense as male daylami wearing skirt. Or I dunno, burka. One thing is to highlight sexuality, another is to miss the point completely.

    Thing about Caledonia and (I imagine) a huge part of its community is that people are in it for their style. So when it comes to this sectorial, such details are important.

    Hm. Their background aside, I've never noticed issues with them being too egregious. They basically wear some casual non-descript outfit, relatively revealing, but that's not too bad since it's not like they are trying to represent either military uniform (o hai kazak girls) or some conservative culture (I mean, RL kyrgyzs kind of are, but their in-game representation is very different, leaning heavily towards significantly more liberal biker culture, even if it was supposed to be a play on nomadic heritage of central Asia).

    But yeah, they can be rather controversial, but not only units make rare appearance, it's that people of supposedly prototype culture are nowhere around to complain...

    Why not Akbar Engineer Supremo? :P

    Eh. T2 Ojotnic is more likely, if anything.

    You partially are. Another point is that IMO a reference should make total sense in the context of the work it appears in and follow established in-universe laws, not raising any eyebrows (and possibly escaping notice completely) among people who don't know where the reference came from.

    Case in point, Not-Celty: we know that JSA don't make weapons like that and that Infinity designs are vastly different in general. It also does not fit sleek and futuristic style of the sectorial.
    Frankly, even I noticed a biker in a tight suit and a helmet with cat ears and immediately realized who that is supposed to be, even though I had no idea what that anime's name is or what is the name of that character. Hell, last anime I've watched was from like 25 years ago.

    If CB sculptors think that JSA's target audience cannot make this out without melee weapon straight outta Dark Souls, I'm not sure what they think.
     
    #99 Barrogh, Mar 2, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  20. FatherKnowsBest

    FatherKnowsBest Red Knight of Curmudgeon

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    Agreed on this.

    I really hate Mr. Big Hat for some reason. I don't even know what it's called or what it does. I just want to kill that oofy doof thing with fire.
     
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