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Do Mines obstruct LoF?

Discussion in 'Rules' started by n21lv, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    Situation: two Troops (both Prone) and a Mine Marker and positioned in a straight line so that the Mine Marker is in between the Troops. Do Troops have LoF to each other?

    Mines have a profile, where their Silhouette is specified to be 0. At the same time, mines are represented on the table as a Mine Marker, and LoF rules tell us that Markers do not obsctruct LoF. So does Mine (as a Mine Marker) obstruct LoF (because it has S0) or not?
     
    #1 n21lv, Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  2. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 6.13.42 PM.JPG

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Line_of_Fire_(LoF)

    Camo tokens and markers never obstruct LoF

    EDIT: Sorry, I assumed you were referring to the camo token and not the discovered mine itself. in which case I would still say no because every instance of a mine in the rules refers to it as a "Marker" which does not obstruct lof.
     
  3. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, this may be something that needs to be cleaned up in N4...

    There are two types of markers in the game, but no way I can tell to distinguish between them within the rules. Gamestate markers (IMM-1, ISO, etc.) and markers that represent troops or equipment (camo, TO, mine, sniffer, etc.). RAW, I'd agree with @MikeTheScrivener, but I wonder if non-camo markers that represent equipment were meant to not block LoF.
     
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  4. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    The same instance comes up with Motorcycle troops.

    All cases of the rules cite that a motorcycle "MARKER" is left behind when a troop gets off of it regardless of whether you choose to represent it with a mini or not – though I've seen people play them as obstructing LoF even though I'm certain that shouldn't be the case.

    As for N4 cleaning up, it seems pretty clear to me they shouldn't block LoF now because of the recurring terminology, but a reminder on the "Mine" or "Motorcycle" page itself wouldn't hurt.
     
  5. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    The mines themselves are much smaller than the 25mm markers used to represent them, so I'm OK with them not blocking LoF to a S0 trooper.
     
    chromedog likes this.
  6. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    I just realised that Camo tokens also have Silhouette, so Silhouette is not the definitive factor that defines whether an object obstructs LoF or not. I guess I just answered my own question, but I'd like an official confirmation, just in case :P
     
  7. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    As Mike posted above
    Screen Shot 2019-08-20 at 6.13.42 PM.JPG
    As Mines don't othwise indicate, they are treated as any other maker (they do not obstruct LoF)
     
    chromedog and Hecaton like this.
  8. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Yup. Camouflage (any type) and Impersonators don't block LoF. The main one that does is Holoecho, but it says it's a specific exception.
     
  9. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    I really start to wonder why people think it's about the Camouflage marker when I specifically wrote 'Mine Marker' three or four times =D
     
  10. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Because a S2 silhouette might be able to block LOF between two S0 troops more easily than a S0 silhouette?
     
  11. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener O-12 Peace Kepper

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    Very rarely does the actual mine marker hit the table. They have a tendency to just go off as a camo token, or if in the event they are discovered its usually a discover-shoot order where they're destroyed.
     
  12. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
    Warcor

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    There are two contradictory uses of "marker" in N3 and that's bad because it leads to a lot of confusion and miscommunication. But in 2nd edition there were three; the weapon now known as a Pitcher used to also be called a Marker.
     
    BLOODGOD likes this.
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That, too.

    Most of us are used to thinking "mine marker" when we actually mean "camo marker concealing a mine".
     
  14. n21lv

    n21lv SymbioHate

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    The question is actually based on a real life example. But in that case these even more Camo tokens arranged in a line.
     
  15. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I mostly find it weird that Mines aren't treated as figurines/models.
    And the wiki page on Marker still redirects to Pitcher instead of the more relevant Marker LOF page :(
    I've tried to quickly show those rules during games so many times only to end up on Pitcher