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Discussion about how to make Shang Ji "superior"

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by the huanglong, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    No it doesn't. Multiterrain gives you one terrain type of choice. If you picked the wrong one or end up on a table with more than one terrain type, then you run into the same problems.
     
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You pick before deploying, so it'd be pretty hard to pick the wrong one. I'm not so concerned about multiple terrain types given I've never seen a table with even 1 type, let alone 2. I think the terrain rules basically only come up in relation to mission specific zones like Rescue for the majority of people.

    If you're the sort of person who regularly plays on tables with multiple terrain type zones you're probably not really the sort of player who cares too much about the Shang-Ji suddenly moving 2" faster as you're likely playing in a very casual very laid back environment just for fun.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    And what's the benefits of suggesting daft rules? There's plenty of other things that won't happen, but this one is just daft.
     
  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think the rule is fine and would fit ok. You say Humans can't get to 10" movements, that's not true. Any human in a specialised powered suit can move that fast. Go look at all of the various manned TAGs. A miniaturised speedy Guijia would fit fine as superior Yu Jing power armour tech.

    Under the fluff Tarik can basically do the same through sheer (enhanced) physical prowess alone. I'd imagine that YJ's armour tech can at least keep up with Haqqislam biotech if not surpass it in raw poundage.

    Personally I like the main idea of the Shang-Ji's thing being fast and mobile. The Zuyong are the regular line HI, the Yan Huo's the big slow tanks with guns, and the Shang-Ji being the fast HI with stuff like a higher move stat and rules like super jump. Gives them all a different place to inhabit, even in Vanilla.
     
    #84 Triumph, Jun 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
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  5. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, +3 is easier to start from, since we don't know where the rounding point is.


    TAGs are twice as tall as a human, so a human moving at normal leg speeds will cover ground twice as fast.

    Tarik is kinda like Usain Bolt, model is something like 7'8" tall. There were actually some people media talking heads arguing that Bolt cheats at the sprints because he doesn't have to take as many steps to cover the distance. :face_with_rolling_eyes: (I admit, it is something like 35 steps when everyone else is taking ~52).

    Now there are some things you can do to make muscle movements more efficient with technology. Oscar Pistorius' blades are an example, the carbon fiber is actually springier than Usain Bolt's Achilles tendon. I've seen a couple guys working on "human extenders" that used bungie cords as the muscles, the extenders let someone run a 2-minute mile using as much effort as a 7-minute mile. That makes you stride length really long, because you can't really speed up your steps too much more. So I'd be really surprised if power armor could speed you up a whole lot. There's more mass, so you can't stop or start as quickly, plus it does a real number on your knees (just about every Sailor has bad knees from running on steel deckplates).

    But I'd be surprised if the Shang Ji got more than 6-2 move.
     
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Usain Bolt might be able to beat a Weibing in a sprint, but that doesn't mean Usain is more than 4-4, because I highly doubt 6-4 means simply speed. It's also the agility, control, and propulsion associated with navigating obstacles effortlessly at high speed. Basically, the measure would be that an Oznat or Sophotect is expected to navigate a military obstacle course at least 25% faster than the average that a highly trained active serviceman can.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    We're talking about fantasy driven sci-fi here. If CB want to give the new cutting edge tech N3 Shang-Ji Iron Man esque thrusters to justify them being faster and having rules like super jump they could well do that and it wouldn't be out of place at all.
     
    #87 Triumph, Jun 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Me and Section9 are justifying it backwards - we already have the facts that 6-4 isn't going to happen and we justify/speculate why this is. CB has stated that 6-4 movement isn't going to happen for a normal human, so the only way Shang-Ji would get 6-4 as it stands is if CB reclassified Shang-Ji into non-baseline humans.

    I think it's more likely that the salvaged/stolen JSA project would result in a 6-4 S5 HI. You know, where line between TAG and Human is blurred.
     
  9. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower

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    Actually, it's the 6-2 movement rate which Bostria said wouldn't happen for ordinary humans.
     
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  10. Spleen

    Spleen Well-Known Member

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    That's actually whats so bad about it, the wrong one to pick is the one that appears on your table...

    If my table has mountainous difficult terrain, and I pick mountainous terrain for my multiterrain skill, I move 10 inches an order through it, if I pick aquatic for my terrain skill, I move 12 inches an order through the mountainous terrain.

    It's extra silly when you consider that.
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    If you pick the "wrong" terrain type intentionally, then you lose movement when you touch the zone, doesn't seem like a great trade off to try and squeeze out a couple of extra inches.

    If the terrain is classified as very difficult, then you can't even declare move+move orders. The majority of special terrain types are classified as very difficult.
     
  12. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    I think that's been corroborated by Gutier too, humans not piloting TAGs can't go faster than 4-4 (Tarik doesn't count) or use Mk12s.
     
  13. Maksimas

    Maksimas Heavy Infantry Addict Maxim

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    But Sin-Eaters and Kriza Boracs get to use Mk12s, and from what I know, they are human, no?
     
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I took that to mean 6-2 wouldn't happen for ordinary unassisted humans like your average Zhanshi. Humans with help, like a cutting edge suit of armour, or Tarik's biotech enhancements, it's all within the realms of possibility.
     
  15. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Given that Mk12s aren't any bigger than your garden variety rifle and Nomads have human models who use them that doesn't sound correct at all. It's got alot of kick but nothing someone with specialised equipment to work with it can't handle.
     
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  16. colbrook

    colbrook Grenade Delivery Specialist

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    Good point on the Kriza, though Sin Eaters aren't exactly baseline human any more. I guess it's more a "very rare" for humans to carry rather than a "never".

    http://infinitythewiki.com/en/Mk12

    The Mk12 has demonstrated effectiveness against different types of targets both in test centres and in live action, but its recoil is so strong as to be almost beyond human limitations, restricting the number of troopers who can carry it.
     
  17. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately Multi-terrain is mostly useless. How many games have anyone actually played with it? None of the ITS have a need for it. I think it's shown up in a few of the summer BoW scenarios and that's it.
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Actually difficult terrain is a thing in Rescue. Bringing alot of multi terrain troops gives you a decent advantage.


    If you consider physique a rough stat of how physically strong a trooper is, anybody with a PH stat of 13-14 can more than likely handle an Mk12 fluffwise on the basis that Wulvers operate them through nothing more fancy than sheer muscle power alone.

    So basically any of YJ's elite HI could handle an Mk12 because high tech power armour making them strong.
     
    #98 Triumph, Jun 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
  19. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    You're right, they could.

    But CB has said that 6-2 MOV is out for any baseline humans.
     
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  20. Solar

    Solar Well-Known Member

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    As well it should be.

    As for how to make Shang Ji better, the answer is to give them lots of cool loadout options and make them linkable with regular Terracottas. You take the Shang Ji because it has a Heavy Rocket Launcher and SMG profile as well as slightly improved stats and can round out the team.
     
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