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Discussion about how to make Shang Ji "superior"

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by the huanglong, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    I thought Hsien were in the same armour as Shang-Ji as well, but does Hsien and Sun wear old-style super-expensive premium powered armour and Shang-Ji are the only ones in the new style inexpensive premium powered armour?
    I'm was over-hyping myself writing it, I'm a bit sad that 6-2 probably won't happen :(
     
  2. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Unless they give the Shangers G:RemPressence, I doubt we'll see 6-2 on it...
    Something like Climbing Plus though... I mean... sounds like something a human decked in powered armor with some extra tools would be able to accomplish.

    Super Jump would be nice, but then again... unmodified humans probably don't get that ( Unless YJ somehow finds a way to create power armor that actually allows for Super Jumping- ).

    Still, a shock troop idea sounds neat.
     
  3. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Shikami says hi.

    Actually, a Shikami-like armor would be pretty cool for the completely re-done Shang Ji, just with better guns and less CC. ODD or Mimetism, maybe some variety of deployment (Mech or Forward).
     
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  4. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Wait-
    Wait wait wait-
    Gonna look up it's profile real quick now-
    ...

    Now, I will be honest that I have no real idea where each faction sits on a technological development level, so I have no idea where Yu Jing sits on that hierarchy, but... I would find it believable for us to at least be capable to rip out almost all of those CC tricks ( Since lets be honest here, if such a Shang Ji were to enter existance, I wouldn't be surprised if they were on par with Hsiens in CC, since having low CC is not our thing as far as I have been lead to be aware. ) and shove some actually competent guns on it ( Maybe a Red Fury? Those seem to be in style lately. ). Kinda doubtful on the Mimetism/ODD part though, mostly since I have no idea how technologically advanced YJ is compared to the other factions, so I'll err on the side of caution and say ''No room was left for camouflage due to all the impact cushioning and really cool looking jetpacks we mounted on these guys.''
     
  5. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    They seem like what they are meant for Shock Troops with the shorter range weapons for the most part, CCW and high-ish CC stat. I'd like them to have MA L1 and Vet would be awesome. Hell, make them Veteran Troops instead of Line Troops too. They will be needed for Hunting Party. Right now the only troops with that classification are Zhanying and Daofei!
     
    #245 Space Ranger, Aug 13, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018
  6. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Roughly speaking fourth, depending on how you count Tohaa and if we count Aleph as distinct from Pan-O instead of being a concentration of Pan-O's (and to a lesser part Yu Jing's) cutting edge stuff. There's some specific areas where Yu Jing is supposedly better than Pan-O (HI and quantum hacking) but not all of it shows up in game. Nomads is another quirk where they are supposedly lower on the ladder than Yu Jing but... well... let's just put it like this; for all intents and purposes Yu Jing is mediocre in terms of tech within the human sphere since the Show Don't Tell is sort of reversed to Tell Don't Show, though perhaps IA changes this.

    As an example, Yu Jing doesn't have ODD technology. Instead this effect was achieved by messing with TO Camo when they made Shikami. I'm unfamiliar with the details, but I assume it's not full-powered TO Camo, but salvaged or some other trade-off. Pan-O has pure ODD tech.

    In either case, back on topic.

    I'm not entirely enthralled with Climbing+ and would prefer it if Shangers became simple Super Jump rather than both like the Shikami in that case. Climbing+ isn't expensive, but we're still talking precious Gram on an overloaded camel, and for most buildings Super-Jump will achieve the same effect except slightly more efficient. It could certainly achieve an approximation of the mobility that 6-2 achieves, even if 6-2 is generally better and cheaper (until you run into the wrong terrain).
    As for CC stats. I think that Shangers are in sufficiently good place to not need a costly bump in CC in order to be effective, they just need that MA or NBW level in order to be able to prey on TAGs and line infantry. It's more about movement efficiency than actual effect.
     
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  7. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    There’s some other ways to skin the cat without adding to movement. Forward Deploy or Mech Deployment would be good. You can even deploy already on terrain.
     
  8. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no.
    Yes because it allows cost-efficient advance. No because it doesn't let you make unexpected moves nor have better cautious movement, and it also means you're creating another Zhencha, but slightly different. That latter part isn't so bad if they're different enough, but personally I just don't find a forward deploy Shanger to be very exciting compared to the Zhencha (I mean, that poncho promises only interesting stuff and he's a HI).
     
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  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Well, mimetism would certainly be an option on a shooting-Shikami version of the Shang Ji. Tigers have it, after all. Not as good as ODD, but not impossible. Or for that matter, just use the wimpified TO camo system.

    But that is a good point about deployment options stepping on the toes of the Zhencha.
     
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  10. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    There is that yu king aristeia character coming who had her legs amputated to get super jump grappling stuff going on.
     
  11. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    That would fall under ''intense bodily modification'', I suppose.
    Which would be a way to give Shangers Super Jump or 6-2, but... we are talking about an entire military unit comprised almost entirely of cyborgs then.
     
  12. ambisinister

    ambisinister Broken Zoetrope

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    Paging @Section9 to the forums.
     
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  13. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I know adding skills is cool and all but what about something simple? I say just make him ARM 5 and be done with it. Right now the basic SJ is not quite worth it. +2 pts you could have Multi-Rifle+LGL Wu Ming. For 10pts less you can lose the LFT, Shock CCW, -3BTS, -1 ARM, -3 CC, -2 PH, Duo.

    Ok. Now that I’ve written down what would be lost going down from Shang Ji to Zuyong, 10pts for that doesn’t seem to bad! :thinking_face:

    [​IMG] SHÀNG JÍ Combi Rifle + Light Flamethrower / Pistol, Shock CCW. (0 | 37)
    [​IMG] WÚ MÍNG MULTI Rifle + Light Grenade Launcher / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 39)
    [​IMG] ZÚYǑNG Combi Rifle / 2 Breaker Pistols, Knife. (0 | 27)
     
  14. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Realistically, all you lost is a LFT. A useful weapon, to be sure, but... 10 points less and you aren't much worse off without it.
     
  15. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That's what I was thinking too. Of all those things you "gain" for the 10pts. Which of those things is going to see the most use? The Combi Rifle, followed by Armor and BTS. Is the 10pts worth the LFT and +1 ARM, +3BTS?

    Again, I think they don't need many skills or something like that. Make +1 to their existing ARM (Armor 5) and be done with it. I take them for that!
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    The PH is the biggest part of those 10 points, after that ARM. If you bump it up in ARM, that's going to be expensive, though. Real expensive.

    And to answer your question, BTS and the Flamethrower. That's the real difference between those units so that's what you'll need to make sure you get the most out of.
     
  17. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Okay, so Daofei are traditional Camo HI. Zhancha is something similar but not the same. Maybe this means Daofei will get altered somehow, maybe not. I'd love it if Daofei got Superior Infiltration. That aside.

    Give Shangers Holoprojector and we've got a reason for them to exist. I'm thinking either "Heavy Infantry Hafza" or "Heavy Infantry Kanren" here. The former would probably require trimming on ARM and PH by a point each to get the unit down to be within Zuyong HMG points range, while the latter I estimate to be up to 5 points less expensive than a Daofei.
    The Kanren version is self-explanatory I think. There's going to be a gear difference between Zhencha and Shangers, and Shangers probably needs adjustments on loadouts, but still... The Hafza version, however, would open up for a few shenanigans regarding lieutenant displacement/multiplication as well as allowing for a few surprises to be added to Zhanshi and Zuyong fireteams.
     
  18. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    That would be cool but I already hear guys saying "well what makes him that much different from the Equestrian Knight"? Well of course the ability to join fire teams but that would only be in IA. Not Vanilla.

    Personally I want this already pretty assault-y guy to be even more assault-y! Martial Arts L3, Assault (duh), Kinematika L2. And throw in some grenades while at it!
     
  19. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Perhaps Assault even.
     
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  20. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    To go with the Assault Hacking Device of course! lol

    I'm a bit surprised that I can only find 3 guys with Assault and none are YJ or JSA. Father Knight, Asawira, and Drakios.