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Discussion about how to make Shang Ji "superior"

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by the huanglong, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I expect Shang Ji to stay mostly as they are. Shang Ji are the basic HI of Yu Jing, that is their design space and they will stay that way. I don't expect any new profiles for them but its possible. What I do hope for is mixed links with the Zuyong. Otherwise the Shang Ji are not likely to be taken over the cheaper Zuyong.
     
  2. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Frankly, that's an admission that the Shang Ji require some kind of change.

    And I think CB know that.

    The real question then becomes, what do you change about the Shang Ji to make them a desirable option without losing their essence?

    Hence my suggestions, above.
     
  3. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    I think some more options would be maybe a Shang Ji character that can link with Shang Ji. Give Shang Ji a haris while giving Zuyong a core link. This would certainly make the roles each unit fulfills different.

    Frankly, basic HI are always a tough sell in this game.
     
  4. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    Why would you want to lock that into a special character instead of making it an option for Shang Ji?
     
  5. Death

    Death Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean? I suggested a Shang Ji character and a Shang Ji haris. I did not mean to imply I wanted a Shang Ji Character that gave them Haris. Though that would be interesting if it was some type of special mix haris.
     
  6. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Given the total lack of information about the shang ji I'm starting to suspect they've been dropped and we're getting Hai Dao like Ryukens instead of Raidens.
     
  7. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Would that be a bad thing? I'm not sure that'd be a bad thing. Question is why they'd drop Shang-Ji after they recently updated their iconography and when the base concept is decent.
     
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  8. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it'd be a bad thing necessarily given the sculpts didn't age well anyway and they didn't do anything about updating the shitty profiles for so long nobody in their right mind uses one anyway.

    There was no real reason to drop the Raiden either. The model was a relatively recent one but they decided to replace them with GitS sculpts instead.
     
  9. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Raiden I can understand. The only thing it had going for it was a cool name, otherwise the icons needed updating anyway, the sculpts weren't 3D, and it meshed less good with the ODD profile. Haramaki less so, it followed the naming convention of Domaru and O-Yoroi, but I guess they felt they needed to give the illusion that JSA sacrificed something during the Uprising.
    Shang-Ji, however, they payed someone to fairly recently update the icon for and the name simply means "superior". The sculpt is due for an update and the profile, unlike Haramaki or Raiden, nobody has married to. You can literally slot anything on them, with the possible exception of those stolen (I mean reclaimed) blueprints from that Japanese R&D company, and even then it kind of makes sense.
    Hell, they could probably just take whatever they had in mind for the Haidao and slot that right on top of the Shang-Ji icon and name. Even the old backstory blurb fits just about any HI that is better than Zuyong.

    What I'm saying is they're a shell you can dress literally anything new into. The only real criteria is that it's got to be a stronger set of abilities and stats compared to the Zuyong, and that's not a very high bar to clear for a HI.
     
  10. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

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    I definitely want to see Shang Ji updated and not Squatted, because they're the models that originally sold me on Yu Jing!

    New Shang Ji armour would look amazing, and honestly would be a great canvas to showcase Yu Jing HI superiority. Here's hoping.
     
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  11. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure they weren't 3D sculpts? The Raiden had the trapezoid pegs in the joints.
     
  12. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    You are correct, it's a new style release.
    O-Yoroi infamously being the first 3D-sculpt from July 2011
    Raiden HRL having been released May 2015
    From what I can dig up.
     
  13. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    That's my guess.

    Note that Cranes are wearing armor very visually similar to Shang Ji.


    The Shang Ji used to have a basic Hacking Device. Then it got changed to an AHD for some reason.

    But overall, I agree with this list.
     
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  14. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    If you directly compare the Shang Ji and the Crane, the Crane is 12pts more for +4CC (CC18->22), -1BS (BS14->13), +1WIP (WIP13->14), MA3, X-Visor, 2 Nanopulsars, Kinematica L1->L2 and Shock->DA CCW (think I got everything).

    Given that even the Zuyong get Kinematica L1, I'm kinda hoping that the Shang Ji gets L2. That'd help make the Shang Ji a little faster (sometimes), and in general better than the Wu Ming suit. Though it seems that Kinematica L2 usually comes with MA3. The Hsien doesn't have any level of Kinematica and is MA1, but the Su Jian does have Kinematica L2 in Mobility Form.
     
  15. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    [​IMG]

    I think it's worth going back to first principles and looking at what we have now.

    The "base Shang Ji" is unlikely to change from PH14, ARM4, BTS6 and Kinematika L1. That's all from the armour. It's possible that it could get 6-2 move, but unfortunately it seems unlikely that CB are going to shift on the design philosophy that locks "humans" out of that move profile. They could also pick up Multi-Terrain and/or Hyperdynamics both of which also fit with the "high mobility" theme without major change.

    Another possible angle would be to pick up Martial Arts L1, which would make their existing investment in CC and CCW worthwhile as well as providing the usual fringe benefits for a tiny cost.

    Now from a weapons perspective I'd love to see a lot more options, but the base Combi + LFT is surely a must. It'd be nice to see the Multi pick up a LFT too 'though. I quite like the idea of this being where "sideways options" appear. So the Zuyong has an HMG, the Shang Ji a Spitfire, the Zuyong has a Missile Launcher, the Shang Ji a Heavy Rocket Launcher etc. A "close Assault" loadout with Boarding Shotgun, Assault Pistol and Nanopulser would also make for an interesting choice to include in some fireteams.

    Profiles, this feels like such a great place to park things which wouldn't work as Zuyong, starting with Chain of Command and a Lt profile with +1 SWC. Now a Regular Hacker also feels like it would fit well, as does a Haris option, with lots of "Special Haris" choices. "Counts as a Zuyong for Fireteam Composition" also feels like an option which fits with new design sectorials AND what we want the Shang Ji to be.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Well, Crane and Sun Tze v1 supposedly are in the same armour and one of them hasn't got Kinematika while the other one has L2 thereof. MOV, ARM, BTS and W are probably the only "set in stone" features of that armour. If they kept the lore regarding recruiting from the veterans of Zuyong and other Invincibles, I'd question whether CC and the CCW need be so spendy, I'd lower the very costly PH slightly, question whether they are Line Troopers and give them Veterans before I start looking at the guns. First thing I'd do when looking at guns is change the pistol to breaker pistol since that seems to be what Invincibles get as standard.

    However
    Haidao seem to be adopting the role of slot-in for fireteams
    Zhencha seem to be adopting the role of mid-field brawler
    Both these roles were what the Shang-Ji seemed suited for, leaving Shang-Ji in a bit of a weird space.

    Third option I could see is more radical; veteran Shock troop.
    Disentangle the fluff regarding their armour. This role better suits the increased expenditure path with MA1 (or NBW now that design options are opened up, eh eh eh?) and MOV 6-2 together with Multi-terrain (though CB has said this is no-go for baseline humans). Sprinkle some grenades to make use of that PH and stick a Haris profile (or Custodier-style naturalized Haris) with no special fireteam options. With a base cost of very close to 40, three of these will have eaten nearly all of your budget, but would hopefully be powerful enough to get shit done similar to Karakuri.
     
  17. Kallas

    Kallas Vincible

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    I miss that regular HD :disappointed_relieved:
     
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  18. AdmiralJCJF

    AdmiralJCJF Heart of the Hyperpower
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    If I could make only one equipment change, and everything else had to be done through linkability, I'd swap that back.
     
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  19. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    For myself, I'd like Breaker Pistol, why wouldn't they have it if the Zuyong do? Combi-FT is great but I'd change some to Combi-Nanopulsar, Boarding shotgun in there, maybe even Vulkan Shotugn.

    How about a Chain of Command! That would be nice.
     
  20. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    I thought Sun1 was in Hsien armor? Or am I remembering the first Sun model?


    I like that veteran shock troop idea!
     
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