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Dire Foes 9

Discussion in 'Nomads' started by Solar, Nov 17, 2019.

  1. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    in TJC if the Kriza isnt an option normally dropping raoul on their head or rushing them with a puppet gets the job done, but it would nice to other options.
     
  2. Jason839

    Jason839 Well-Known Member

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    I am hopeful for holoprojector lvl 2 myself. If they are going the altered carbon omage route, then holoprojector lvl 2 would help simulate the whole body swapping to be in different places instantly thing. If they just used the name, then it would still give tunguska a tricky specialist type unit to use.
     
  3. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
    Warcor

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    Problem solving in TJC has alot more options than that.

    This past weekend at i4 I did quite a bit with Perseus, Raoul, Grenzer ML, the Hollow Core, Mary, and my favorite was the Meteor Zond with Interventor support. The Spektr FO I had hoped would get some work done never saw any Dazers to kill and he didn't do much other than lay some mines.

    There are several options in TJC, but I hope Kovac is another good or hopefully, superior option to hit hard; but I'm afraid she likely won't be.
     
    Tourniquet likes this.
  4. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    abusing a breach in the rules should never be seen as something good. CB should give address to tools for dealing with fireteams, not make us search for loopholes and aberrant interactions to do that.
     
  5. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    Disagree.

    What I like about this game is it rewards clever tactics. Coordinated orders in particular are ripe with opportunities to do things like force unfavorable AROs by triggering an aro with one model then acting with another.

    Would it make you feel better if they gave it it's own wiki page, or subject header in coordinated orders " How to force bad options."
     
  6. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    Coordinated moves are tactics that can be clever in a given situation, forcing the enemy to chose bad options is ok, I agree with all of that. Abusing the "you are forced to ARO a koala or dodge" and go somehow back to N2 when you didnt FtF against smoked MSV2 is what is nasty. This interaction is clearly something not well tested by CB and they cannot fix it without a big revamp in the rules (too much rules affected at once). Using that tactic is legal, but nasty, and justifying its use as "clever play" seems to me just an excuse for abusing a hole in the rules.
     
  7. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Senior Backlogged Painter Manager

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    I understand you don't like it.

    I don't think you can say with any certainty that it's unintended or exploitive.

    This interaction, and combination of units/abilities has existed for the entirety of N3. CB has had 5 years to issue errata or FAQ that AROs may be held in reserve in case new models trigger an ARO.

    CB has never done that, and every ruling I am aware of has reinforced the use it NOW or lose it nature of AROs.

    There are certain instances that I find annoying, such as breakwaters requirement to be targeted prior to using it, rendering it moot in most game play. But that is a problem with breakwater, not the aro rules.

    Given how oppressive and dominant certain ARO units are ATM, I think it's good to be able to right back with tactics.

    You still are limited to half B, and can only use it so long as you have command tokens/sacrificial models, and you opponent may still dodge. Don't use hyperbole, in 2nd edition you got full burst, your opponent got NO ARO, and the only limit on use was how many orders you had. That's VERY different.
     
  8. Spitfire_TheCat

    Spitfire_TheCat Feel the Wrath of the Miezi-Bot

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    So .... I just ordered my copy of Dire Foes 9 online and it was available ... so what will I receive first? The models via mail or the profiles?

    I am hoping it's the profiles :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

    Can we have them? Please? :sunglasses:
     
    borisgreymenace, loricus and jfunkd like this.
  9. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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    There's two satellite tournaments this weekend and Carlos & Carlos managed to keep the kitchen clear of the caffeine addicted long enough to record a video, I'd bet up to five Jamaican Dollars we'll see the profiles then, along with details on Code1 and Operation: Frozenballs.
     
  10. Tourniquet

    Tourniquet TJC Tech Support

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    Doesn't necessarily need to be a koala, you could cord a jag to run out in front to achieve the same effect, Koalas just get used because they cost nothing. And I agree with Natetheaggressor, with more and more dominant and oppressive ARO pieces that can't be taken in a firefight warping the state of the game People need to get creative in order to effectively deal with them.

    It's not all that different said piece being able to ignore 90% of the typical counterplay options for free.
     
  11. Armihaul

    Armihaul Well-Known Member

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    natetehaggresar
    The same example of breackwater show that, because something is not fixed by CB, doesn't mean it isn't wrong. They know it, but fixing this requires deep changes that are not easy to fix in a ERRATA without touching other parts of the rulebook.

    I do not try to go hyperbole, just maybe I lacked in explanation (I thougt was unneded to explain some topics). In N2, there were some situations of no-FtF, such as the surprise shot. Smoke was not one of those because it worked almost like now. But in N3, they stated again and again that wanted that all reactions could do a FtF roll in fair situation. So I am pretty sure this combination is unintended (perimetrals to avoid a ftf shot, I only mean this)

    Tourniquet
    I think is completelly different, because one is a trooper, is something intended, while the other is a equipement, a weapon, was never intended to be used to "protect" someone in that kind of situations. I am not talking about the use of coordinated. I am talking about the use of perimetrals to avoid the FtF. It can be done without coordinated by a hsien haris, and is also nasty. Using words like "creative" to justify that, to me is just an euphemism
     
  12. loricus

    loricus Satellite Druid

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    If you get behind and close with a hacker you can choose to hack against dodge or shoot against reset so there are examples. I doubt this one was intentional but there's no way of knowing right now. Personally I won't be using it but it would depend on what group I'm in. Here if anyone was breaking the game with a list it gets used less. Heck, we can make Sigmar fun.
     
  13. Ugin

    Ugin Well-Known Member

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    Below is the phrase from Perimeter Effects, in the wiki.
    • The Perimeter Items provide ARO as they were troopers in the Active Turn. However, the bearer and his Perimeter Items grant a single ARO to each enemy trooper in LoF or ZoC.
    I'm not sure if there's any strictly intended 'game design' meant to prohibit the usage of Perimeter items for defensive tactics.
    And IMO, 'nasty' and 'creative' are not mutually exclusive words.
     
  14. Hachiman Taro

    Hachiman Taro Inverted gadfly

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    Tbh doing the smoke + intruder coordinated with a couple jags with panzerfausts and maybe a flashpulse bot is probably nastier and more reliable than using Moran Koalas anyhow. And utterly the way coordinated orders work.
     
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  15. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't work vs MSV2 AROs. MML2 Tsyklon Feurbach can fill that hole though.
     
  16. colbrook

    colbrook Black Fryer

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  17. inane.imp

    inane.imp Well-Known Member

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    Lol. A cheap Grenzer Sensor FO. She does literally nothing to help Tunguska's problems.

    Fucking boring but usable.
     
  18. Savnock

    Savnock Nerfherder

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    Sensor is great, but Grenzers were already a thing. Missed opportunity here.
     
  19. Modock

    Modock Well-Known Member

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    Damn, talking about disappointment. She brings practically nothing....what a waste of good looking mini, no wonder they waited till the release.
     
    #259 Modock, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
  20. Lucian

    Lucian Well-Known Member

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    Kinda "meh" to be honest. For a character designed for a Grenzer/Securitate fireteam she lacks... everyhing.
    The only "+" side: she can do Deva sensor thing with autodiscover.
     
    #260 Lucian, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020