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Deus Vult!

Discussion in 'Rules' started by Miller66, Aug 23, 2018.

  1. Miller66

    Miller66 New Member

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    Can Mendoza perform "Deus Vult!" if there is no enemy adjacent to him? With 3 Yellow Dice would be a nice spam helaing

    upload_2018-8-23_12-1-45.png
     
  2. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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  3. Miller66

    Miller66 New Member

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    ok. So of there is no Obstacles, Allies or Enemies adjacent to him, Mendoza can't perform Deus Vult! Right?
     
  4. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    Correct.
     
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  5. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    Just curious, why?

    The cited wiki says MOST actions require targets, not ALL.

    The text of the ability only seems to use target for the extra switches?

    I'm not an expert by any means, but I don't understand how you arrived at your conclusion.
     
  6. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    https://aristeiathegame.com/wiki/article/5-actions

    You first check the requeriments. So does not matter that you can not apply the effect of said Action to the Target you have already declared it and you meet all the requiriments. You can declare it and use the roll for switches but you can not apply the effect.

    Gata can target a Barrier whit her Misdirection even if the Barrier cannot be Dazzled :S:

    Hexxer can use Vade Retro againts an enemy Valkyrie but can not apply the effect becouse Valkyrie is inmune to displaces.
     
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  7. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    Thats just it.

    Misdirection says "impose the dazzled on the target". Similarly free run says "spend one movement point and place yourself in any free space adjacent to the target."

    Deus vult has no target language, except for the switches. I don't understand why having a target is a requirement?
     
  8. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    You are reading the effect text, and that text does not matter at all to declare an Action. The question is if I can declare the Action not if I can apply the effects

    1. REQUIREMENTS
    As the active player, you choose which Action you want to perform and check that all requirements are met: you have enough Action Points to pay the Cost, the target is within Range and Line of Sight, and any other special requirements the Action calls for. If all requirements are met during this step, you may move on to the next. If you fail to meet any of the Action's requirements, you cannot perform that Action.
     
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  9. natetehaggresar

    natetehaggresar Backlogged Painter

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    I'm not sure that list is a list requirements that apply to all actions. For instance move is an action, without a range or target.

    I think that list is illustrative of things that could be required.

    After poking around on the wiki I thought I may have figured out that the red and black hexagons with ranges were a way to indicate if a target was required, which would support the need for a target for Deus vult.

    But after looking through some cards I'm not sure?

    Sorry to sound so picky, I appreciate your patience.
     
  10. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    Don't worry I just want to help you out. And maybe find if something in the rules is not clear

    Move as an Action don't have range and Line of Sight (:L: means that you need LoS and :SL: means that you don´t need LoS) and don't need a target. And the effect apply to the user so you can say that the user is the target.

    The Actions that have a range always need a valid target to declare it. And the general rule for targets is:
    But there are Actions that let you choose other Targets. Murtair's Super-Jump let you use a free space as a Target for that Action and Bixie's Doumu´s Gift can target Blocked Spaces.
     
  11. eronth

    eronth Active Member

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    I am inclined to agree with natetehaggresar on this one. Deus Vult! does not target enemies. It has a range because everyone within range is affected, but it does not say you target anyone. Deus Vult does not permit you to choose some targets and not others, it applies to EVERYONE in range; no mention of targeting. Yes you must choose targets during attack declaration, but, again, Deus Vult needs no targets. You choose no one during declaration.

    I'm fairly confident you can use it with no targets in range, then use switches, which do have targets (as long as targets are within range of the switch).
     
  12. Kelthret

    Kelthret Usuario

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    Zlavin is right. If an action has a range requirement, you have to fullfill it, so you cannot declare Deus Vult! unless you have a valid target, a character or obstacle adjacent to you.
    The fact that the effect of the action can be applied to multiple objectives doesn't mean you can ignore its range.
     
  13. eronth

    eronth Active Member

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    But Deus Vult has no target requirement. Deus Vult does not target anything since it never calls for a target in its main effects. It happens to affect things within the specified range. You don't need to check for a target in Deus Vult range because it does not have to target anything.
     
  14. zlavin

    zlavin Well-Known Member
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    1-1:L: is a target requirement. You need a valid target inside the range and you need LoS to the target.
     
  15. Kelthret

    Kelthret Usuario

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    Everything that has a range requirement needs a target in valid range to declare that action. You can see that there are actions without range requirements like Hannibal's Programmed Strategy or Kozmo's Meteoric Charge.
     
  16. Miller66

    Miller66 New Member

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    or Tauwu Hallucination!
     
  17. Miller66

    Miller66 New Member

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    I can see Zlavin point and I can agree. But let complicate things.
    If Mendoza is adjacent to two enemy, does he will select 2 targets? And if Maximus is another enemy not adjacent to Mendoza, can he use Implacable twice?
     
  18. Roadrunner7431

    Roadrunner7431 Well-Known Member
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    Deus Vult is a green action, it is not an Attack action, so Maximus' Automatic skill of Impalacable does not apply because it is only triggered by attacks which are a special type of action. The first section in the Rules Glossary describes all the steps in using an action. It says that only the targets inside the Action's Range are considered valid targets. I would say that as long as there is at least one valid target for Deus Vult within the range of 1-1 Mendoza may spend the 2 Action points to trigger this non-attack action.
     
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  19. Miller66

    Miller66 New Member

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    ouch...missed that. sorry.
     
  20. SushiYumTumz

    SushiYumTumz New Member

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    The action most certainly requires a target . Zlavin is correct.

    Just target an obstacle.