Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by deltakilo, Feb 16, 2019.
I don't really get the benefits of Mk2 MSR + Naga/Dasyu AHD over the contrary. I mean, as I see it, it's one point cheaper, has better WiP and the resilient PH order allows more room to go close quarter with it. Is it for the CR over the BShotgun and the better BS on MSR ? Or not wanting to jeopardize your AHD going full ham at Shotgun range ?
There aren't any. Only advantage is if you're going for Naga/Dasyu KHDs, but then it's marginal.
Honestly, just play Mk2 AHD and Dasyu FO. Best combo.
That position is usually taken by people who insist on only playing official miniatures, and well, Mk2 AHD doesn't have a miniature so cannot be played.
The mk2 msr has one advantage, you do not lose an order while you stay In HD waiting for an opportunity
I find myself utilizing a AHD BS unit more active so the order is more likely used early.
Well, having a TO MSR somewhere is still a potent tool. Especially when said TO MSR has NWI and don't even cost an order being hidden or lost - you can even wait till turn 3 before revealing it to deny some late game objectives. Meanwhile, AHD may be quite useless sometimes, when you have nothing to hack or you face a lot of KHD.
It's all down to personnal preference. I like to go for Mk.2 MSR + Dasyu FO. The dasyu FO has some advantage the Mk.2 does not have: he can become a huge speedbump if needed, thanks to having mines, flashpulse, better range, and suppressive fire state. While i don't really like the combi rifle (it's plain), it's a very good weapon.
Oh yeah, I definitely didn't consider the order usability dimension of the question, thanks for pointing that out. Tho both can benefit from staying TO for a couple of turns, so idk how to integrate this in my list building.
I'm also wondering now, why picking an FO Dasyu when you already have Mk5 ? I mean, it's a fairly expensive piece, kinda less lethal and way less expendable. Wouldn't Dart be more relevant for the same price ?
In a button pushing mission having a Hidden Deployed specialist near the objective is gold, especially if you take out their Sensor bot (say, with a Mk2 sniper).
Dart and the Mk5 also don't deploy as far forwards, and are generally worse at winning firefight (though Dart can pull ahead if the target has C&H or ODD).
SMGs are also one of those weapons that are amazing until your enemy is 8.01 inches away, a combi covers 4 times the table area giving the Dasyu a larger threat area, and also lets it engage in it's +3 range without being hit by DTWs.
I really like the FO dasyu for it's sheer flexibility. He is expensive, that's true, and you may prefer cheaper options. Here are some things he can do:
_ assassinate a key target. Hidden + infiltration + surprise shot + combi is more than enough to kill a soft to mid target, and it's really difficult for the opponent to hide everything from such a troop. If there is an obvious lieutenant, a key specialist, a long range ARO ... many things you need to remove, you can do with him
_ do objectives. I'm stating the obvious, but again, HD + infiltration is god.
_ speedbump: CH:TO + NWI makes him rather hard to remove, plus WIP 14 flash pulse or BS 12 suppressive fire, plus mines
_ fireteam hunter. While not the best at it, HD or CH:TO may allows him to get some good angle to shoot at a weak troop in the link. Add some mines if needed (ie. you go close to a corner, drop a mine so that the mine is in lof from your target, then next order you move and shoot. The target must either dodge or shoot back but tank the mine)
The Mk.2 can do several of these, but while he has a better WIP, he is not always better at shooting (cause BSG vs combi, it depend on you being able to use the BSG well) and is less of a speedbump (short range, no suppressive fire, no mines, no flashpulse). For example, while a Mk.2 may be a big threat to a fireteam thanks to the BSG, or isolate a vulnerable member with oblivion, he can't do the mine + shoot trick.
I inadequately phrased my answer. I was specifically talking about taking the binary option of MkII MSR + Naga/Dasyu AHD. It is the Naga/Dasyu AHD that kills the combination. The price is simply not worth it, especially when you can get a far superior AHD in the form of Mk.II
As for the MkII AHD, I find that it's usefulness as specialist or Boarding Shotgun killer is exceedingly useful. If there's no good place or objective in the middle for it, I will sometimes try and infiltrate it over the line. If you can place a Shotgun blast from BS13 on enemy link team or Lt, it's a worthwhile sacrifice. Or you just leave it in TO on the mid line and wait for perfect opportunity. On many tables, you can have better covering fire from midfield Shotgun than a MSR.
While I love Dasyu FO, Boarding Shotgun is a big advantage of Mk.II.
Just take both :)
I like the BSG too, but i find it to be harder to use. Of course that's very dependant on who you are facing. It's not always easy to reach that sweet 0-20 cm range band and/or to put that nice template on several opponents, but when you can do it, it's really rewarding ! "So, i'm shooting at +6, and since i'm TO, you are at -6, plus surprise shot, plus cover. Good luck :)"
Don't forget the unique BS13 on a skirmisher :) (well, at least until Dart came along)