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Deltakilo's thoughts on OS.

Discussion in 'ALEPH' started by deltakilo, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. BigBadFox

    BigBadFox Well-Known Member

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    And Kiranbots are maybe our best option against Mines...

    For me, mines are a the only problem I cant solve with OS. I played a lot against TAK recently, maybe thats why :D
     
  2. deltakilo

    deltakilo Bear of Butcher bay
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    I usually run dart through mines, or lamedh. Dart dodges on tens is immune to the shock and can tank the hit on her bts. Lamedh are 6-6 move so can clear multiples and you have a WIP15 engineer to bring it back with rerolls..
     
    Knockout_013 likes this.
  3. ronfinity

    ronfinity Member

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    @deltakilo - I’ve tried tweaking your list on page one to have an AHD proxy mk 2, and a dasyu MSR in lieu of the naga AHD and the MSR proxy mk 2. I’ve had to swap out the shukra and sensor bot for a deva sensor lieutenant to get the extra bit of points. (Core link sixth sense protection for turn 1 while going second is a plus imo - helps against impersonators to sort of make up for the loss of the biometric visor). In theory the proxy mk 2 solves the major weaknesses. Aside from lack of mines, the list plays almost identical. What you gain though is a Hidden deployment infiltrating template and boarding shotgun for war bands. A WIP 15 specialist that doesn’t give up orders when they die is pretty awesome too. Having both the mk 5 forward observer and the mk 2 hunting objectives while not losing orders is awesome, though you do have to keep them from having line of sight to the same troop in ARO as best as possible. Can you see any obvious deficiencies I’m missing?
     
  4. ronfinity

    ronfinity Member

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    Operations Subsection of the S.S.S.──────────────────────────────────────────────────GROUP 1[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]10

    DAKINI Tacbot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 21)

    DAKINI Tacbot Paramedic (MediKit) Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 15)

    DAKINI Tacbot MULTI Sniper Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 21)

    DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (0 | 13)

    CSU Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 11)

    CSU (Specialist Operative) Rifle + Light Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 12)

    DEVA Lieutenant (Sensor) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 24)

    PROXY Mk.1 Engineer Combi Rifle, Nanopulser, D-Charges / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    PROXY Mk.2 Hacker (Assault Hacking Device) Boarding Shotgun, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 21)

    PROXY Mk.5 (Forward Observer) 2 Submachine Guns, Nanopulser, E/M Grenades / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 10)

    YUDBOT Electric Pulse. (0 | 3)

    NETROD . (0 | 4)

    APSARA (G: Jumper Level Z) Submachine Gun / Pistol, Knife.

    (0 | 22)GROUP 2[​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]6

    DASYU MULTI Sniper Rifle, Nanopulser / Pistol, Knife. (1.5 | 42)

    DANAVAS Hacker (Hacking Device Plus. UPGRADE: Maestro) Combi Rifle + Pitcher / Breaker Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25)

    ZAYIN Rebot HMG / Electric Pulse. (1 | 26)

    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    LAMEDH Rebot Flash Pulse, Sniffer / Electric Pulse. (0 | 8)

    NETROD . (0 | 4) 6 SWC | 300 PointsOpen in Infinity Army
     
    #84 ronfinity, Apr 7, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  5. ronfinity

    ronfinity Member

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    Added another CSU too. It’s another order and another chance at a speed roll from metachemistry, bottom of turn 1 I drop the deva from the link, and reform with a dakini and the speedier of the two CSU.
     
    #85 ronfinity, Apr 7, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
  6. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Thanks for the amazing write up! I‘ll definitely give these lists a try.

    Just wondering: what is your metas position on pie slicing and placing „as intended“? To me it sounds like there might be some situations in which you‘d want to say something like „I‘m placing the TR bot on the wall so that if an S2 walked around that corner, it would see the TR bot and the linked Dakini MSR at the same time“, which is difficult if your opponent isn’t into that sort of thing.

    When you say that your AROs stop anything short of a Cutter or Avatar, is that assuming that you have multiple AROs? To me it seems like your list requires really good positioning skills to pull that off. If I played e.g. a Marut with smoke support in Vanilla, I’d expect that I’d be able to finish a proxy Mk2 sniper, a TR bot and 1 linked Dakini in one turn. Or would you say that that’s a acceptable outcome for turn 1 and you‘d just focus on the mission or on hacking the Marut on your turn 1?
     
  7. Fabbo

    Fabbo Questionator

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    @deltakilo Is there a reason why you don't use the Samekh FTO Missile Launcher in the Dakini team? To me it is an auto include.

    There are 2 other units that I personally like but never see are:
    - Andromeda (sup Infiltration/Sub Machine gun)
    - Father Lucien Sforza

    I kind of understand that Andromeda is vulnerable because she has no camo but she has NWI and is a specialist. Or is it the sillouhette which makes her a bad choice?
    And father Lucien is a great mine remover with his holos. He is also capable of hiding the existence of a Garuda or sth.
     
    #87 Fabbo, May 20, 2019
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  8. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    If you are refering to the list in the first page, it's because there is no SWC to place an HMG, a Sniper and a ML FTO.

    The way I see it, there are 2 kinds of Dakini Fireteams: static ARO that chug down SWC like there's no tomorrow (sniper + FTO = 3 SWC), and the more "multiposition" ones, with 2 HMG, at least one Deva, and the rest depending on what you can spare (obviously this Core looks for a more limited table coverage to compensate for the HMG's ranges).

    All that, and some of us are contrary to the whole model (because of how much of a dissapointment it was), and because it looked like she was forced-fed to us by being the only melee troop in OSS

    I doubt I've seen the good Father in years, frankly (and I faced ISS, and games with SoF, so there were enough chances for him to show up). And the few times I saw Patrochuls on the table I was the owner... so maybe it's just that Aleph players prefer other toys, or are not used to use Holo gear.
     
  9. Fabbo

    Fabbo Questionator

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    I use the Samekh instead of the sniper. So there is no difference in SWC. You even save 4 points by doing so and the template EXP ammo is delicious.
     
  10. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Mimetism Vs 4pts, and while several ARO pieces have MSV 1-2 (thus the FTO would be better), several do not. Against offensive MSV enemy pieces, certainly the FTO is better.

    Also, the FTO receives just +1 BS from the Apsaras, while the Dakini gets +2, so that tends to make people prefer the Cores in which the Apsaras gives the most "bang for her buck" so to speak.

    Finally, an Active turn Dakini Sniper is B3 DA, while the FTO is always B2 EXP. In reactive, the ML has better perfomance, but in Active the MULTI Sniper does, making it more flexible since the ARO difference is smaller than the Active turn differences (Burst)
     
  11. Fabbo

    Fabbo Questionator

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    Yeah, I assumed that the Sniper Dakini would mainly perform in ARO because for the active turn there should be an HMG Dakini, right? I know that things don't always go as planned so I give you a point here.
     
    xagroth likes this.
  12. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    I know it's an old message, but don't forget LuLu (aka Lucien Sforza) as the best mine remover. And viral rifle + xvisor is quite nice :)
     
  13. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    That message keeps coming up, but I never feel comfortable with him in my list and would prefer a Naga KHD for the same price. Maybe you have some recommendations on how to make the most out of the holoprojector? I get the remove mines thing, but how do you play a good shell game here? After all, to make things believeable ypu also need to own the models that he is disguising as
     
  14. regelridderen

    regelridderen Dismember

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    Patroclus/Spitfire is a GREAT model, who has won me many a game, particularly in tandem with Achilles.

    I don't emphasise the shell game that much, but if you can put down three daikini/thorakitai cheerleaders in his place, people won't be proper prepared for what hits them – but I get less mileage off this, than the other advantages; people not knowing, which to shoot, the ability to safely trigger mines, Surprise Shot etc.
     
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  15. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Another great trick with Holoprojectors is the Suppressing Fire one. By placing the real unit in total cover when going into suppression you can use the automatic activation of the echoes at the start of your opponent's turn to create echoes and chose one that is now peaking out. There is even the extreme order sink of not placing the true one out of cover and making them waste orders working around/shooting a unit that does nothing. This works well if you can position them in a line that makes it so flanking them doesn't give line to the real one until the outer/fake ones are already shot, but that if they were to move further any of them could see the unit.
     
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  16. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    First thing, you can deploy in either holo1 or holo2. If you're deploying as holo2, you impersonate 3 minis on the courtesy list, but your opponent will know it after deployment. Beside, you need to impersonate the same 2 or 3 minis, so it may be difficult to make something credible. Some ideas: 3 "cheerleaders" thorakitai in vanilla or SP (less believable in SP since you would expect a fireteam), 3 "dakinis" if you have one or 2 devas and don't plan to have a real dakini core.
    If you go holo1, you can trick the opponent either by impersonating a "weak" troop and make the opponent ignore it (ex. Patroclus hidden as a simple dakini cheerleader - it's nice since they have the same movement) or a stronger troop (ex. Lucien Sforza as an asura) so that the opponent want to either avoid it or commit some strong fighters and spend more than he deserves.
     
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  17. ZlaKhon

    ZlaKhon New scale enthusiast

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    Thanks, that got me thinking a bit!

    I'm currently focused on OSS so I came up with this: Sforza can disguise as a Mk.3 or Mk.4 Proxy. That achieves the following things, especially when going second:
    - Assuming you play Proxy Mk.1, Mk.2 and Mk.5 as mosts lists do: the opponent no longer expects your TO unit
    - Get to put a painted Mk.3 or Mk.4 Proxy model on the table (I rarely do)
    - Sforza now is a viable target for hacking attacks that might tempt the opponent to spend orders on getting repeaters or AHDs close by
    - For experienced opponents: your list looks like it might miss a spot in a combat group and about 20ish points so the opponent can be tricked into thinking that there is a Garuda even though there isnt (which again might waste brain capacity or even orders to set up a defense)

    The only downside I see is that it costs a full order to get to holo lvl2 if needed to set off mines etc on the active turn.
     
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  18. Nenyx

    Nenyx Well-Known Member

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    You're welcome :)
    1. True, through it might feel strange. Be careful with the order count through: Sforza brings 1 regular order that a Mk.x should not have.
    2. It's a bit sad. Try giving Mk.4 some love. The rocket launcher is a BIG order sponge. Mk.4 HMG is good in itself, just overshadowed by better options. Even Mk.3 is worth its points, sort of a fast but sturdy arjuna.
    3. If you made your opponent use orders to put a repeater and try a hacking attempt on Sforza, well done :) Be careful through that being hackable is a public information once the "target" is in the hacking area. Of course, if your opponent moved and revealed a camo to try to hack you, he has already lost orders and surprise :)
    4. Yes, same as 1., be careful about the order count. On the contrary, if you hide Sforza as an Asura (so 42 to 48 points more), you can hide at least 2 hidden troops (ex. "Spitfire Asura" may be Sforza + hidden MSR dasyu, same courtesy order count, same point, nearly same SWC)
     
    ZlaKhon likes this.
  19. pedrogzc

    pedrogzc Well-Known Member
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    And now... Considering this year Interplanetario missions... How the hell would you include a spec-ops?

    Would you drop the danava and include a Deva hacker/doctor with spitfire, or the Apsara, but then you have to downgrade the Naga AHD to KHD? Also, I would try to add an arjuna with 2 kiranbots, it can act like a screen to protect rems and another pain train.
     
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