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Dear fellow YJ Players - you do not want IA ASAP

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Teslarod, Mar 25, 2018.

  1. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    Unless the Recreations have damaged cubes like Wallace, what they think is what ALEPH wants. I suppose there's that bit of fluff in there, but it contradicts earlier stuff that's been written (and you were giving me shit for not knowing the fluff...). It's certainly possible that Sun Tze *thinks* he isn't being influenced by ALEPH.

    There's no evidence whatsoever of the Yuandun doing any asking.
     
  2. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Have you read the Treason ITS pack?

    Yuandun is not asking for the rebels to lay down their arms, they are air-quotes "pacifying" anyone with a Japanese name. If my Commanding Officer told me that, it'd mean "kill every man, woman, and child".

    There is zero mention of the Yuandun asking for people to lay down their arms.


    You haven't read the Dire Foes fluff, have you?

    Sun and Saladin have a virtual meeting that, to the best of Sun's abilities to determine, is not monitored by Aleph. And that's from the original stories, before the various Dire Foes missions got retconned into all tying into the Uprising.
     
  3. Hecaton

    Hecaton EI Anger Translator

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    It's also stated in a more word-of-God style fashion that Wallace was basically a minion sent to subvert Ariadna by ALEPH until his cube got damaged. Sun might *think* he's not being controlled...
     
  4. SKOZZOKONZ

    SKOZZOKONZ Well-Known Member

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    Even so sun is doing his job of advising.
     
  5. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    Wallace was an agent provocateur or a leader/unifier sent for Caledonia. Sun and Saladin are strategic generals. Regardless of Aleph's degree of control, they are doing their job!
    In fact, the only 2 recreations not (supposedly) doing their job are Avicenna and Mushashi (and considering how the latter is suddenly a Regular member of the JSA...), all the rest are open to interpretation (which is a good thing, incidentally, because it lets a lot of options open).
    Also, Sun & Saladin meeting is considered "out of Aleph's knowledge" ONLY because of the overzealous Deva Functionary they freeze and alter so he knows nothing of the delicate themes talked on the meeting, just that. As I suggested before, Aleph might be hiding her left hand's actions from her right one... specially if Aleph is constrained by her nature as an AI overseeing the whole of humanity with some rules implanted, supervised and enforced by Bureau Toth, while the Recreations are more free.

    After all, Recreations can be considered "authorized AI", so a rogue one would be targeted instantly by the whole OSS. Even Avicenna and Musashi, not to mention Wallace, would be unable to stay ahed of the whole OSS + Aleph forever, and by the admission that the fluff has moved 2 years since Human Sphere to Uprising...
     
    Hecaton likes this.
  6. psychoticstorm

    psychoticstorm Aleph's rogue child
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    I would appreciate a less confrontational way of debating the opposing sides of the debate.

    A few fluff things
    Mushashi is not suddenly a regular member of JSA he was part of JSA from its conception under Yu Jing.

    We literally have no knowledge of recreations and their autonomy, baring the mechanical observation they do not have cube 2.0 in contrast with the other Aleph troops indicating not a direct tie up with Aleph, the fluff has wisely left it nebulous and to the reader, it is definite that some are mistrustful of them at least one has been definitely attempted to be used as a Trojan horse by Aleph, PanOcenia and Yu Jing against Ariadna and one is of suspect origins, the independent actions of Sun Tze and Saladin are another view point of their independence (even from their nations as they are working together with Nomad "help") so we really don't know definitely Musashi on the run makes a point of them not having a kill switch or a recall option and the "updates" need to happen manually and not wireless.

    So we really do not know for sure for who Sun Tze talks for, I would say, as a personal opinion, he talks for himself with the interests of Yu Jing in his mind and not as an Aleph proxy.

    If Aleph had to say anything on the subject she would do so in the court though her best interest is to remain neutral on the event.
     
    A Mão Esquerda likes this.
  7. xagroth

    xagroth Mournful Echo

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    He has a profile with Regular instruction (that makes Haris with 2 HI), which is what I was referring to.

    Known "outside of the universe", incidentally, since it's one of those pieces of fluff known only to the actors involved and the playerbase (like the Tohaa being responsible for Ariadna's isolation and the death of the second wave of colonists at Dawn, or the true extent of CA's power).

    I partially disagree, since that wouldn't link with his talks with Saladin (not to mention, he talking in secret with Saladin). It's just a matter of interpretation, mind you, and I think you are correct in assuming he is not Aleph's mouthpiece; I'd say that he simply is trying to defend Humanity as a whole, and considers (by design or free reasoning) that Yu Jing is the best bet for a wall to face the CA (consider how Juana is in Military Orders, which I think can be thought as the least atomized -because of corporate interests in the government- military faction on PanO), while earning Haqquislam's trust with Avicenna was the first plan to secure the source of Silk, with Saladin being the second (not to mention Haqquislam is uniquely suited to cover for the battle areas Yu Jing would not be as needed at, like finding enemy infiltrators). Nomads could help a lot, as well, with their computer prowess, but they fill a double role (control of Aleph, and counter to the CA's digital presence... shame they smuggle CA's troops here and there too, for what we read on the official history document).
     
  8. BenMoss

    BenMoss Well-Known Member

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    So ignoring the blatant trolling (again from @A Mão Esquerda, it really would be great if you'd stop coming here and just insulting people despite your tag)...

    People are reading the fiction. They are then commenting on how their portrayal in Uprising is at odds with that. Let's start with the description of the faction on the CB website.

    PanOceania’s challenger, its perpetual opponent, the other great power, is Yu Jing (pronounced you cheeng), the Asian giant. The whole of the Far East, united under the banner of what once was China, has produced an integrated, but heterogeneous, oriental culture. Equipped with a blooming industrial sector, state-of-the-art technology and astounding economic growth, Yu Jing is ready and willing to demand the dominant position to which it feels entitled.

    I see united asian power, booming industry, high tech and nothing at all about police state. When you read other bits of the fluff it expands on that to describe how the government have built this pan asian vision around an ancient system of rulership rebuilt for the modern era but drawing on its teachings heavily. High ranking agents of that power structure are expected to espouse those virtues in their actions at all times.

    So when @Section9 says that they aren't acting the way they should in a counter insurgency it's because they aren't following the very doctrine that those agents are supposed to be teaching and demonstrating to the sphere.

    You have chosen to ignore that because it runs counter to the simplistic police state model you have in your head and is essentially a classic case of confirmation bias. Ultimately this is where every one of these conversations gets bogged down.

    • If you came into Uprising thinking of YJ as modern day police state then you're right, the actions of Yuandun fit perfectly into that model.
    • If you came into Uprising thinking of YJ as unified Asian hyperpower drawing on the teachings and ethos of ancient China it makes no sense at all.
    Ironically, there was another thread complaining about how YJ was being overly portrayed as "evil police state" so the fact that all the defence of Uprising comes from people with this viewpoint just goes to prove how far that rot has set in with the perception of the faction. So let's try rewriting your statement:

    Except they aren’t, but, hey, why read the story as written... “the Asian giant, united under the banner of what once was China, with its integrated, but heterogeneous, oriental culture acted like an untrained, uninformed, genocidal (see definition of this and how they are matched perfectly in the Yuandun fluff pack) security service in their attempt to suppress a province/territory in total and complete rebellion of every man, woman and child that they didn't see coming in any way despite having agents planted throughout that population. This totally contradicts much of the previous fluff defining the faction so please do something to address this contradiction so that the universe you are writing about is internally consistent again!"

    There you go, all fixed now to remove that strawman for you :)
     
    Triumph, xagroth, Section9 and 10 others like this.
  9. Section9

    Section9 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I've been hammering at. Nice to see at least some people are reading what I've been writing.
     
  10. Space Ranger

    Space Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I’m definitely in the camp of seeing YJ as grown beyond its communist days. Not necessarily a total democracy or something but at least a good model of socialism. Yes I did ignore some fluff about YJ. So I didn’t EVER use the Kuang Shi exploding. (Hardly ever got to anything to use it anyway) I also never used the control device to make them into missile magnets. To me, they were like Shaolin skirmishers. I concentrated on the ISS being a police force fighting internal corruption and outside forces. But the latest stuff has just put me off. So at least for a while I’m not going to play YJ. Just wait for IA and hope something positive happens. I’m going to true bad guys the combined! “who really are just misunderstood” lol. I can only hope balance comes again and yin moves to yang again.
     
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  11. Borlois

    Borlois Yu Jing Imperial Service Agent

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    I think the same about ISS, they use doubtable, hard and severe methods, but focusing into protect YJ against spies, terrorist, mafias... Yuandun looks like a sort of death squad, not like an dangerous internal vigilance agency.
    Edit: I'm still playing ISS, because I like his original version, and ignore the new (horrible) fluff.
     
    xagroth likes this.