That's kind of my point though. Characters get discounts for being characters. If you don't believe me, just look at Tai Sheng/Patsy/Vassily.
Any veteran player worth its salt, except the designers it seems, knows that ARM is one of the most overrated attributes in the game. Be it ARM 1 or ARM 3 it makes no difference in the resilience of the unit, but the later takes a hit in cost. What makes a HI resilient is being able to take a wound from shock damage and continue fighting.
If you need more evidence just make the next comparison. Take the new Mukthar standard and MSV2 profiles and compare them with HaiDao standard and MSV2 profiles. If you can't see the Mukthar gets much more for the same points while having identical stats and being invulnerable to hack and less affected by E/M ...
Yeah, those guys actually are really resilient due to their ARM. I wouldn't say ARM is the worst stat. It made a difference a lot of times in my experience, both for me and my opponents.
Haidao is a Wildcard trooper in IA, so that's something to consider. In vanilla, he does compare less favourably, I agree. Mimetism is just very good. It's going to be interesting to know how well Ramah can leverage smoke with that MSV 2.
I get mad Fremen vibes from both Mukthar and Namurr. I like it! Same, just a generation of Azra'il further back. I'll be over in the corner feeling old now and tallying up how many I'll need before they go oop.
That isn't your point because I made a different point than what you're referring to. Tai Sheng checks out. Mostly. They've used some serious shenaniganery to her cost 45+, I'm probably underestimating the cost somewhere since I'm getting around 42 points. Definitely not a discount here at least. Patsy also checks out. SMG is cheaper tha you seem to think. Vassily also checks out just fine. Just like Tai Sheng, he's surprisingly expensive now that I examine him, but still... that's opposite the point you were making...
How can you tell me what point I was making? If it's a different point you're making, then you're arguing for the sake of arguing. I made a point that characters get a discount. Now whether it's due to inconsistencies on CBs part as far as faction discounts/bias are concerned that's for another discussion. oQUOTE="Mahtamori, post: 221946, member: 382"]Vassily also checks out just fine. Just like Tai Sheng, he's surprisingly expensive now that I examine him, but still... that's opposite the point you were making...[/QUOTE] I'd love to see the point system you're using. Because as of now I have no idea where you're getting these numbers. There's obvious stuff like FOs costing a point more, Hacking Devices at 8pts and 0.5 SWC, but you seem to have a catalog of costs for abilities and gear. It'd probably help me understand your pov better. Is a Red Fury the same cost as a Viral Rifle? Aren't MSRs also grossly overcosted? Again, I don't have these same magical number sheets as y'all do, but from what I see a Haidao costing 13pts more due to an MSR and MSV2 is appropriate given how cheap Red Furys are.
I don't think our HI is going to be what causes problems. 1 ARM is a joke. 3 ARM is fine, but the units are hackable, not to mention all the other nastiness. That said, I don't know if this really makes other HI worse by default. I'll still run Fasid and Jans in RTF. Look at how you treat people. Disgraceful. Things like this make me ashamed of our community. You should be ashamed of yourself. Which, to me, is why I don't get the attached hackable characteristic in RTF. Genetic enhancements shouldn't be susceptible to infowar attacks. (imo).
Jans and Fasids are also susceptible. So are all the REMs. Unless the Hortluck can insert into a fireteam, (For instance, Jans with Tinbot), I don't see them being very survivable, if at all. The CoC option may be better than the Khawarij choice. (Another way they're getting outclassed here). I won't really know until I throw something on the table though. I just don't get why they aren't MI like Kaplan. Very similar profiles, except one can be hacked. The only reason I see for this is a potential fireteam option or pure handicap. EDIT: Which is what it is. I still don't see a reason to be upset. Shiny new toys and all that.
I make a post saying "Characters don't get a discount". You quote that and say "That is my point" when obviously your point is opposite of what I claimed. Hence, no, that isn't your point. And no, I won't go into my price estimates. For one they are off by a bit as you could tell from me estimating that Tai Sheng and Vassily should be cheaper than they are and for another it's something CB has asked the community not to do. CB is very consistent with their price scheme. No model gets a true discount (*hides Aragoto combi+lsg under a carpet*) but they are also aware of how to optimize their own system by making use of stuff that provides whatever discounts they want (Frenzy/SMG) or penalties (CC for most models).
Precisely. I wasn't saying that "discount" HI are fine compared with true HI, I was just trying to explain that true HI is expensive because it has attached stats that are expensive because they are high, and the point formula used by CB rates as expensive high stats. For example, BS14 is expensive, while BS12 + Mimetism is better most of the time but it's cheaper.
