So has anyone actually tried them more? I've heard very little about any use of them. Adding to my thoughts that reinforcements is not doing well. I tried two games with YJ reinforcements and can't say I liked the rules in general but some of the troops were ok. I can't see myself using some in vanilla as they are though.
For me the sore point on the dokkaebi is his abyssmal BS of 11for a HI and you pay premium for that pitcher. He needs a fireteam to reliably place the repeaters and he doesn't get that in vanilla.
I guess it at least needs some kind of FD or Infiltration on its non-reinforcement profile to make the pitcher work in the +3 range band. That being said, I'd rather see pitchers relegated to that level of reliablity across all factions instead, so they become a sidegrade rather than the lynchpin of entire strategies.
Daebak in general? My last game with them I have to prox them. Now they await priming. Havent played them in the time between (time, sickness, and a mini campaign with SP ;-). But they all do nice in my test games. Jujak SF is a great pointmen, Hwarang are cheap, reslient enough and scary when they are to near. Same for Sulsa which are a good mix between CC and Specialist, but one lucky shot and ... not tested the Sulyongs. The hacker robot is quite good, but usualy the pitchers come in a bit late but still effectiv if something hackable is near (up to 24" inches 16+8"). Many hackers with pitchers suffer BS 11 (Jazz, Gromoz, Uhahu, Mary) and need a team for B2 or a little boost in BS. Dokki can get +1 BS but then your FT is very restricted (3 REMs, 1 Hwarang). So at least you have a pitcher with B2 in RF Haris - even in vanilla.
Haetae are just fantastic. In Reinforcements there's only really one profile unless you want to constantly end on 102 points out of 100 in your Reinforce group. I really want to use them in regular play, part of the reason why I'm hoping they get disseminated to ISS. Dokkaebi have one very good profile in Reinforcements, which is the Mk12, simply because one of them can gun fight as well as be a hacker. The combi profiles are much less useful in Reinforcements on the simple fact that as a Pitcher arriving on T2 (or T3 if you play with regular rule set) is exclusively an immediate tactical tool that's often no longer relevant. For vanilla I'm not sure BS 11 is sufficient for Pitcher work, so the combi profiles probably won't see much use, but if they get disseminated into a sectorial where they get stuck in a fireteam, they can probably move that sectorial up the ranks. Sulyong are a disappointment that you only work with if you can't fit a better unit in your group for the points you have left. If these end up in regular play, better hope they get something real fancy they don't have in Reinforcements or put them on the shelf next to Qiang. So-Ra got so much more useful with NCO. She's more of a Tai Sheng with it, second tier NCO, but in a sectorial without first tier NCO (or Bixie since Bixie doesn't fit in all lists), she can do some work. Especially if said sectorial has a decent LT+1 (that is to say; not Hsien nor Qiang) Jujak are Jujak. I still haven't used them because they are too similar to Zuyong, and I didn't shelf IA to play more Zuyong. Sulsa I've only tried once and they kind of got locked down by Bolt snipers. I want to get a shot at giving them another go. Hwarang are solid. I feel they get unfairly compared to Diggers or Domaru, but I do have to admit that CB did do their very best to make them as expensive as they could while keeping them barebones. Still, context is king, and Yu Jing sectorials are doing reasonably well in spite of having essentially only the basic Daoying LT2 profile that cheat points and extremely few impetuous/frenzy profiles Son-Bae Mk12 and Son-Bae Mk12 +1B are both great additions. At 15 points, they pad out a fireteam nicely in a way, which is why I'm really hoping they get added to IA's fireteam roster, and in a way that is suspiciously PanO-like, and at 16 points you get a worthy solo piece alternative to Rui Shi on a smaller platform.
As they are NOW, the only one I can see using in vanilla on a regular basis would be the Haetae. Second choice would be Dokkaebi. To me in YJ a pitcher is a nice to have. It's not a big deal breaker for me. Hwarang and Sulsa are stuck in the DZ. There's better options to take that Sulyong. I wouldn't take Jujaks or So Ra in vanilla before and wouldn't now. But hey, it's not like they can be taken anyway. I think it's the same case for most REF troops except of course Nomads and Combined. Aleph got some stuff that would be pretty good even as they are now. I started playing O-12 and their new guys are meh at best now and would never use in vanilla as they are.
Not yet, unfortunately for them I chose to field Tunguska for the reinforcements tournament we run so they saw no play time, and the tournament we plan for now is just resilience ops without reinforcements, so the community can adapt first to resilience ops before we add reinforcements to the mix, so I play a lot of Druze in order to prepare for that. I will probably try them after that, models are assembled and waiting an opportunity to be fielded after all, not sure if it will be white banner or Invincibles though, I feel that in contrast to the Nomads and PanOceania reinforcements that can more or less be sameish for each sectorial I play (or outright the same) Yu Jing reinforcements need to be more tailored to the sectorial you play.
We now get Daeback in Vanilla and WB! I’m a bit disappointed in not having some in ISS but it’s not bad. My immediate favorite is the Sulsa. 1 use camo is not bad. I think once he’s out of camo he’s not going back in most of the time anyway. Vanilla gets a Sulyong Duo. WB gets a lot added to their teams. However, many of them are only AVA1-2 and make them mixed teams. Which is not horrible. It actually gives more use for Jujak because Hwarang count as Jujak. Haetae can be in a core fireteam! Woot! Mixed but still that’s big. Ok Shang Ji-sus might still be better but he's also 12pts more. Also to make a pure team it's going to cost a lot more. ────────────────────────────────────────────────── 4 1 HAETAE (BS Attack [Guided]) Heavy Rocket Launcher(+1B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (1.5 | 37) DOKKAEBI (Hacker, Marksmanship, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Spotlight]) Mk12, Pitcher ( ) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 30) JUJAK Breaker Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30) SULYONG (Paramedic) Submachine Gun ( | MediKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 23) HWARANG Combi Rifle(+2 Dam) / Pistol, EXP CC Weapon. (0 | 28) 1.5 SWC | 148 Points Open in Infinity Army
WBA is now the Korean sectorial. I also wish they got spread around to IA and IS as well because now WBA is very flush with units, especially in the 25 point zone.
I don't think so. Since many of them are only AVA1 or 2. I haven't read the background on Huang Di in a long time but I believe it has a wide range of Yu Jing ethnicities.
I was joking, of course. Having all the Korean units is different from being *the* Korean sectorial (though it's pretty trivial to make a Korean only list at 300, at least).
Hmm, IA didn’t receive any updates at all except +3 bts for Zhencha Now that's one more reason to try different wargames until N5 release They had such potential to add the option to play an interesting dirty core fire team in IA. And they didn't even try to do it. IA will finally become invisible now because it simply won't be on the table.
I also like the addition of the RF units to WB a lot. But I also think it would be better to spread them a bit through the sectorials. Hwrang in IA would be a also a nice addition to lower the pts cost in a mixed core and give them a bit CC power. And the Dokkaebi would fit all three sectorials. While ISS is not missing visors, they would be happy with a NCO option. Hwarang beeing "Jujak" is very good. It saves only 3-4 pts compared to the cheapest Jujak but a CC profi is good to have in Jujak team. You also can play full core now with only 4 available Jujaks - now a second specialist for them and Jujak will go from niche to cool and useful. Funny how Jujak count as Shang and Hwarang count as Jujak so if you want to mix them with Shang you will miss the compo-bonus. Haetätä in full core comes to BS15. Not bad, cheaper then Jisus and has more arm but the gun lacks AP and you miss the tinbot and one point BS in full core. S5 is not so much a benefit, so I think Shang is still better. In the case of the HRL I would take Hätaetae if it has a miniature available. Aside from the guided option B4 HRL on 15 is a nice to have. I think I will use the Yan Huo as a proxy. It had a longer pause anyway. Sulyongs opens the option for NCO in a mixed team, especialy with the specialist version - which will be of great use in counter measures. Sulsa with camo one use and Infiltration is great. Now we have a better Ninja KHD All in all a nice move and motivation to paint up my YJ RF @ Korean Sector: I hope they will not rip this units off WB when they finaly realse a K-Sec.
After the announcement of Torchlight Brigade, I couldn’t help but feel that ISS was even more dead. Now I’m pretty sure of it due to not getting any of the new troops. They only got some changes to Taowu. He’s now having Countermeasures on all profiles, +1B, and a special operative. But is still limited to only a Celestial Guard fireteam to join and he doesn’t count as a CG.
5 1 JUJAK Breaker Combi Rifle, Heavy Flamethrower ( | TinBot: Firewall [-6]) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 30) HAETAE (BS Attack [Guided]) Heavy Rocket Launcher(+1B) / Assault Pistol, PARA CC Weapon(-6). (1.5 | 37) DOKKAEBI (Hacker, Killer Hacking Device [UPGRADE: Spotlight]) Combi Rifle, Pitcher ( ) / MULTI Pistol(+1B), PARA CC Weapon(-6). (0 | 25) YĚ MĀO (Engineer, Deactivator) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt, Panzerfaust, D-Charges ( | GizmoKit) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0 | 31) YĚ MĀO (Hacker, Hacking Device) MULTI Rifle, Chain-colt ( ) / Pistol, CC Weapon. (0.5 | 31) 2 SWC | 154 Points
So, looking how everything was implemented into Vanilla and WB, most of it's not too far off from what I thought would originally would be the case. Dokkaebi: Going to be great in both White Banner and Vanilla. At 25 points, the KHD makes for great link glue in WB, providing some fantastic utility and obviously strong hacking coverage. Easily a top-level pick that will likely change how the entire sectorial plays. In Vanilla, I think the Mk12 stands to be a strong, fast specialist and secondary gun with great hacking assistance. With ITS15's overabundance of exclusion zones, this profile sits at exactly the right price point to fill the gap that our skirmishers used to occupy, with an extremely well rounded kit to do it. Top tier pick in both factions. Haetae: Jujak Tinbot/Haetae HRL/Dokkaebi KHD looks like it might be the new standard for WB cores going forward. Massive shift for WB, the ability to fit guided shenanigans built into your main fireteam without having to make any compromises or buy a secondary missile platform makes these guys pretty god damned nuts. Shang Jisus has a strong competitor for the status of WB's primary pointman now. They'll both have their perks, but I think the Haetae might end up being easier to build lists around, since his team will typically be cheaper if you're not dipping into Zhanshi. In vanilla, he'll be a great gun at a great price. Not a whole lot to really add there. He'll combo great with the much-improved YJ hacking presence, obviously, and his low price point makes him easy to include in lists without having to make too many compromises, especially if you're feeling guilty about not running a Hac Tao list. Shame they sculpted it with a non-existent weapon profile. Odd mistake, that. Sulyong: Just take Bixie if you're playing White Banner. If you're playing Vanilla, it'd be embarassing to pretend this thing even exists. Sulsa: Expensive and fragile midfield skirmisher that dies horribly to template weapons, can't fight outside of 8", and lives in N4. Just like almost every other spin on the same cursed archetype, this one lives up to the diarrhea jokes that sprung up from the spelling of its name. Moreover, being mim-6 without hidden deployment (and surprisingly without Surprise Attack) means that your opponent immediately knows which trooper is your Sulsa, and will react accordingly. It's not all bad though. Dodging on PH16 helps him out a little bit against his most frustrating problems, but it's not a perfect solution in the slightest to having to maneuver through template hell. I know some people have been talking about the KHD profile being a potential standout for being able to re-marker up, but I'd argue the one to keep an eye out for (if you had to keep an eye out for this piece of expensive glass mediocrity) would be the FO, which gets a weapon that's actually effective outside of 8" and can place mines to be annoying. Hwarang: Oh boy. This one is a really frustrating one for me. It's in no way an adequate answer to the archetype of cheap HI pseudo-warbands. Compared to the likes of Tankos, Teutons, Cenobites, and other similar troopers, they're vastly overcosted (and worse yet, don't even benefit from the free order from Impetuous when unlinked). They're about 5 points more than they have any right to be, without any interesting bells to show for it. I understand why they were made with Frenzy instead of Impetuous for Reinforcements (where they were already mediocre), but to have them stay that way for general release is a massive mistake. In White Banner, it can be used as cheap(er) link filler, but WB link teams are now so spoiled for useful troopers of all sorts of functionality that it's really not particularly necessary. If you want to run cheap, Shang Jisus with a pair of Zhanshi specialists will work just fine. If you're investing in WB Fireteams proper, again, you're spoiled for choice and don't need filler slots. Even if you want competent melee fighters, Adil MI and Bixie both occupy very important functions within the sectorial. I expect them to mostly fade away from White Banner once people get past the shiny-toy effect and realize that there's really not a lot here. In Vanilla, things get even worse. There's not much reason for these things to exist when Diggers are 8 points cheaper, come with an extra order, and can be situationally more effective fighters (and aren't even that much worse when the circumstances aren't in their favour, anyway), and Liang Kai is also available (for one point cheaper). Their models are absolutely gorgeous, and I know a lot of people are excited to use them for that reason, but they're just straight up bad right now, and have no place seeing a table in Vanilla, and aren't really that much better in WB. So, in conclusion, a mixed bag. The good stuff is really good. The bad stuff is confusingly bad.
It's significantly cheaper than Bixie and either brings mines to fireteam or the only reasonable Paramedic option available to the main HI fireteam. It's a perfectly viable alternative for WB, Vanilla not so much. Ironically it would be better in WB if it was Mimetic -3 instead of -6, allowing you to conceal another legitimate CC threat amongst the camo marker spam besides the Beasthunter. They have one use for WB, filling out a Jujak pure team for objective room missions while providing anti WB coverage for the team. They let you build a sub 140 pure Jujak team which elevates the threat of the team significantly and you don't have to worry about 1 Monk or something getting in there with smoke and trashing everything in the room unopposed. Trying to push into a room where models have the option between DTWs and the wounds and armour to potentially trade, or go F2F with BS21-22 before neg MODs is actually a real pain in the ass to shift with any great deal of efficiency.
I feel like I would consider Sulyong and Sulsa in IA. Having nonhackable, cheaper specialists would be nice. As it is, WBA is feeling a little bloated. Honestly, I would drop Shang Ji from WBA to have them be IA only and Jujak/Hwarang as WBA only.
Please no. Not when BJC is receiving new troopers every 5 minutes. Removing Shang Ji from WB wouldn't make IA better. You'd just be stuck with one already shitty sectorial and another sectorial made slightly shittier for no reason.
