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Current state of Yu Jing

Discussion in 'Yu Jing' started by Wyrmnax, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. Joametz

    Joametz Chinese Empire in Space enthusiast

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    I agree, the Red Fury Pheasant is indeed a capable specialist, although a bit expensive one for what he/she does.
     
  2. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I think you might've messed up the maths on the Strelok. Comes out to 4% to deal 3+ wounds with a T2 Marksman rifle vs a Flash Pulse within 24" for me.
     
  3. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    That Strelok is in a 5-man Fireteam ;)

    (The Sakiel is correctly in a 3-man Triad)
     
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  4. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    I spent several minutes trying to figure out how the fuck it got in a fire team before I realised the sarcasm.
     
  5. Maksimas

    Maksimas Maxi

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    Firstly, I want my hug now.

    Secondly, a few cents on CGs FOs and Xi. I can't say just how much FO CGs and Xi Zhuang have saved me from really bad situations. A BS11 BSG and WIP14 Flash Pulse is is a pretty decent AD and Skirmisher deterrent if you can guesstimate distances well enough. And Xi also having a WIP14 Flash Pulse AND a pair of MadTraps, placed in a good position, is also a nice bit of extra to maintain a vague semblance of control in your own half of the table. And, not delving into my great love for Guilang Snipers since that may have just fallen under perfect anecdotal luck, they're among our best options for defense, at least IMO.
     
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  6. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    I guess +1 point for the effort but the only feeling I'm left with reading through your unit analysis is you're shit at playing Yu Jing. No, I'm not saying this to flame or be toxic but there's an absurd amount of statements that are just so fundamentally wrong, it boogles my mind.

    First of all, the fact that you think WIP is one of the worst stats in the game is just baffling.

    You do realize that except for Leila, he's literrally one of the best optimized Dire Foes characters? You're being dishonest when you fail to mention how insane a boon he is to a link, for such a low cost, while bringing one of the best perimeter weapons in the game. Yes, I know Vanilla he isn't the best but he isn't build for Vanilla, even then he's the cheapest source of Mad Traps.

    Luckily @Triumph thoroughly debunked this nonsense far better than what I had patience to (obviously Sun v2 doesn't count)

    But they literally are though.. Tigers are absurdly cheap for what they do and even very good specialists too.

    Why are you underselling this model so much? He's literally murder incarnate, also have you even looked at the Anethematic profile? He's only a better specialist and V:NWI, the Hac Tao actually surpass the anathematic on every other point... Also, S6 sucks compared to S2.

    Yan Huo is for the most part a terrible unit. Only terrible opponents gonna' leave units upon to you to shoot and once you're forced to relocate, he will swallow tons of orders due to 4-2, which often means he will either be overextended and killed with impunity OR left behind and be an expensive cheerleader.

    Oh sweet summer child. Go ahead, do drop him in inside a deployment zone riddled 8 point repeaters, I'm sure you'll start appreciating that HI stat.
     
  7. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Given that the OP said the discussion is about Vanilla only, and you can't link Xi in Vanilla...

    That's a matter of opinion. Fraacta, Van Zant, and Ko Dali are all up there in the running for top tier AD stuff. I also really, really rate Yuans Yuans up there for cost efficient warband aggressive disruption especially after season X buffs to AD troops.
     
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  8. Zewrath

    Zewrath Nordic Master

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    But not the best.

    Also yes, I've recently played against a QK player and I fully agree that the Yuan Yuan REEEALLY milk that new bonus, they have become an even bigger force to reckon with.
     
  9. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    This actually make me think about picking a Pheasant. You got the points; and I got the model.

    Yeah, every profile got its points. TBH I was despising that profile, but when it comes to a real match - I mean the game against almost equal finesse, or upper-handed - that goes into a pitched battle, I always felt lack of Plan C or D, who combines mission running and some prowess for opening the lanes. Cause you know, a good opponent doesn't let you win easy.

    That's why I'm so fascinated by Zhencha, our very new toolkit. And after reading your points, Pheasant RF fits my bill.
     
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  10. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    You know what, I'm willing to pay that. I have had games that have revolved around aggressively trading pieces back and forth and the game has boiled down to the third turn with sub optimal combat pieces on both sides battling it out trying to bring the game to a close over an objective with their combi rifles. I believe you could probably construct a list and a plan around pushing this type of game for a Red Fury Pheasant to be set up as a one eyed king in the land of the blind at the end of the game.
     
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  11. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Now that's one great analysis I can read off. Rings my bell, matches with my experiences - and even give me clues of another Yu Jing playstyle. Good one, since I rarely fielded him after losing an Oniwaban!

    Gotta add a word; I enjoy fielding Yan Huo when I'm short on budget, and expected to fight a sectorial. They're more likely to pop up their head to ARO your units, and that feeble double-shots are often overwhelmed with HRMC whenever possible.

    Combo him with Shaolins, smoke up to block some major asses.. Frankly, cover-hugging Yan Huo can shrug off most shots aside from full link MLs.


    And @Wyrmnax you're bold, and I think you'll become a good player soon enough. It's good to see someone actually speak about their opinions, and get some positive feedbacks in return. It might hurt on first contact, but you'll be a better player. Keep that up.
     
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  12. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    In ISS, a late game charge by a duo of pheasants, subbing into the main combat group of the moment, have won me objectives before...
     
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  13. ObviousGray

    ObviousGray Frenzied Mushroom
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    Care if you share your experiences?
     
  14. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, it's not often I'd have the CTs to do that during late game and having some 65 points of assets just hanging back to do that is also not necessarily something I usually have to spare
     
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  15. Sedral

    Sedral Invincible Officier

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    Highly debatable.

    Missile launchers and snipers in 5-man team are what comes closest to gatekeepers in this game, and most lists field them just because of how cheap yet scary they can be. You can smoke your way forward or use camo to move around, but gunning them down is also a valid tactic. That's the pano way, and it works just as well in Yu-jing thanks to units like the yan huo. However, it is true that once those guys are down the Yan Huo suddenly lacks targets, and he is not handy to move around (though it is manageable with coordinated orders), so he might feel like a dead weight.

    The solution in this case is to switch his role from active to reactive: if his job is done then he becomes disposable, and he might as well just sit there being as annoying as possible. Supressive fire comes to mind, but don't forget the HRMC can actually fire damage 15 DA shots in aro which is scary enough for most models. Btw, it is interesting how Yan-huo profile are a different take on active vs reactive turn firepower scale, with neurocinetics DML and HRMC being the complete opposite, but every single one of them being somewhat capable in one or the other. For instance, neurocinetic guy is quite effective in coordinated orders!

    Finally, one thing i'd like to add is that a Yan huo performance is highly dependant of terrain density. It is entirely possible that this guy might not perform well on your boards simply because he can never get a decent line of fire, and that for this exact same reason your opponent's are not fielding his favorite prey (namely long-range aro piece) because they can never be deployed in a good position.

    Free agent makes the swapping free, but yeah the duo really isn't needed. Ideally all you'd need is your 35pts pheasant and enough order to have him do something (and not being in retreat if possible). I guess the haris profile could see some use in ISS, eventually using cheap bao solely for aro purpose and deter any smoke-rampage, though i usually find myself much more easily SWC starved in ISS than in vanilla so it might be hard to build around that and still afford everything i want and need.
     
    #35 Sedral, Nov 12, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
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  16. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, it was the Duo part I was reacting to, since the Duo breaks if you use Free Agent to move them around.
     
  17. Fire@Will

    Fire@Will Well-Known Member

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    It's been a while since I've played ISS, and it was a limited insertion list (which always seems to have points spare, when there are Kuang Shi. If I remember correctly, it had a core of 2 Kuang and the smoke operator, a Hsein haris, Sun Tze and a Su-Jian, and a duo of pheasants, mainly for the order efficiency.

    Although, I also think stun grenades and targeting through Sat-Lock might be another vector into central room scenarios.
     
  18. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Pheasants have free agent, so no command tokens needed.

    TBH not sold on a duo of them either, Red Fury by herself sure, but whatever.
     
  19. Mahtamori

    Mahtamori Well-Known Member

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    Again, the Duo doesn't come along, you need CTs to reform the Fireteam
     
  20. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Fair point, I still can't figure out why we have or want a Pheasant duo in the first place though.