Discussion in 'Rules' started by DukeofEarl, Apr 9, 2019.
You get TI the moment you're assigned a mate...
A SymbioMate provides its user in the Active Symbiont Armor state an ARM and BTS value of 9 replacing the ARM and BTS values of the user's Troop Profile and it also provides the Total Immunity Special Skill.
When a trooper in the Active Symbiont Armor state with a SymbioMate suffers a successful Attack or is affected by any weapon or rule that forces any ARM or BTS Rolls she will perform an ARM/BTS Roll with an Attribute value of 9, applying the Total Immunity Special Skill. Any other successful Attacks or weapon or rule requiring any ARM or BTS Rolls by the user during the same Order will also apply the ARM/BTS 9 Attribute value, and the Total Immunity Special Skill.
that second point is telling you when you get your TI. And the wiki is the primary rules source as well, Storm has been very clear about that
if that is not how that rule is supposed to be read, then its far from "clearly" written
So mates aren't a nerf at all but a buff. I'm so done with this right now. Not even being able to flash tohaa with mates is awful. I'm so dissapointed with this.
This is going nowhere....
@daboarder It helps if you clear your mind of the idea of "Activating" the SymbioMate and instead look at it like an Status Effect, similar to Albedo let's say, that goes away at the end of any order where the unit makes an ARM or BTS roll.
If you ignore the whole Total Immunity aspect and how that changes lots of interactions.
oh now its been mentioned I understand how it can be read that way, or even that is what is intended...
So Id change my original answer to eciu.
But it aint clear thats for sure, especially as this is the 3rd time ive seen this argument play out
IJW has verified a few times that this is the way it is supposed to work. The 3rd bullet is a terribly written cancellation clause essentially.
then theyve got to reword the example as well
because as tom pointed out before its written such that the TI is cuased byu expending the mate on the gorgos.
to me this reads more like an ad hoc justification
This and this. The rule needs a complete rewrite either making it very clear you have TI for every attack until an attack hits that cancels the mate, or that you don't.
Right now, the second bullet point isn't clear about that. Also the wiki is missing the punctuation of the third bullet point that specifically defines a successful attack as something that causes ARM/BTS rolls, because it has implications for crits.
You have both me and @ijw in this thread saying it.
And yes, you may be right in the need to rewrite the examples.
That's not what the use of "or" in that bullet point means.
Neither of you are an official CB source, though.
If it's true it's a significant nerf to Flash Pulses that makes me question their playtesting process.
IIRC this was actually the point, considering how cheap Flash Pulse spam is...
If they addressed that before they addressed things like Posthumans that's wrongheaded. Besides, it's not like all armies have a trooper with Total Immunity or Symbiomates - this doesn't help a lot of factions, and Tohaa were already top-tier. Removing a way to stymie Sukeuls isn't good for the game.
You say "iirc" but when was this stated by CB?
I don't remember if it was someone who spoke with them, or a non-CB person who is involved in playtesting, or even just my poor memory. Maybe it was just some random person on the forums and I'm just projecting *shrug*.
Yes it is. X or Y, that forces a roll.
I don't think anyone is disagreeing that it isn't very well written.
The phrasing on the wiki conflicts with the rulebook.
If you look at the PDF it is formatted in a different way than the Wiki, which supports IJW's stance.