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Crits and New Symbiomates

Discussion in 'Rules' started by DukeofEarl, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. jfunkd

    jfunkd Rebel Myrmidon Graffiti Artist
    Warcor

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    @eciu, my friend, I think you've spent too much time on the PanO fourms.

    If you haven't been able to pick it up from my other statements; then continuing to say the same thing isn't going to help.
     
  2. nehemiah

    nehemiah Well-Known Member

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    An ADHL crit is not completely ignored, Total Immunity does not prevent a unit from being glued to the ground, (this is in one of the examples for the Total Immunity), but it would also not cause the Symbiomate to be used.
     
  3. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Will you take it somewhere else and stop distracting from a completely different issue please.
     
  4. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Exiting the armor to get unglued would remove the mate though so there is that.
     
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  5. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    might be a good idea to match the wiki up to the PDF and include the "-" that separate out the "or being affected by any weapon or rule" portion into a clause. I think that is what's causing a lot of confusion. With that though it does leave Crits being weaker than regular hits against Mates, at least against units with only 1 wound on the symbiont.

    Actually to that point, what should take the point of authority when the different sources don't match? Like in this example or with MMLX where printed/PDFs don't match up with the wiki.
     
  6. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    It is the same as it was before against 1 wound symbio troopers. The crit does a wound, they go to inactive symbiont, and lose their mate. It is a buff to multiwound symbiont armor troppers. The resail takes a crit, takes one wound, and still has one wound and a mate.
     
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  7. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    It isn't the same against 1 wound troopers. The result is, but the interaction is different. Before you could not use a mate against a crit. Now you have a better chance to do a wound with a combi and remove the Mate from any unit than you do to crit a unit and leave the Mate intact. Before you had to crit to do a wound to a unit with a mate.

    Before the thread was bypassed with two pages of Flash Pulse discussion we had come to the conclusion that this is the RAW, but uncertainty if it is intended to work that way. Largely because of how poorly written the Mate rule is.
     
  8. eciu

    eciu Easter worshiper

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    Im not native speaker but I always considered "or" as a disjunctive.


    "Someone can be right or wrong"

    And again not having an issue with rule (except for general TI stupidity) just with wording.
     
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  9. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    I am confused by your statement. Are you referring to mutliwound symbiont troopers now? Keep in mind that if you score additional successes in addition to your crit, you will force the multiwound symbiont trooper to roll an armor save and expend their mate.
     
  10. MikeTheScrivener

    MikeTheScrivener Kamau Amphibious Intervention Operative

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    I think your confusion comes from the omission of commas or em dashes surrounding the "or being affected by any weapon or rule that forces ARM or BTS Roll"
    It's a dependent clause that adds information instead of an idea that stands on it own
     
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  11. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    A hit with a combi against a unit in cover has a 10% chance to do a wound. A Crit is a 5% chance per roll. It is more statistically likely that you remove the mate and do a wound with a single ARO of a Combi than you are to get a Crit, which on it's own does nothing to remove the mate.

    Yes, in practicality it matters only for multi wound Symbionts, but the point is that a single hit is better to roll than a Crit against a mate.
     
  12. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Which leads to the question is it the Wiki or Print/PDF/FAQs that take precedence in the case of discrepancies.
     
  13. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    That is not how infinity dice math works. The odds of winning the face to face as a reactive player and the active Tohaa model failing an ARM12 roll vs damge 13 is lower than 5%. You are more statistically likely to do 1 wound in ARO with a crit.

    Also, a hit with a combi against a unit with a mate in cover only has a 5% chance to do a wound.
     
    #73 Bellyflop, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  14. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    hence why I was saying a Hit, not a shot.

    True I was counting a 2 as a failure for some reason. It does change against the weapons you are most likely to face though.
     
  15. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    A crit is a 100% chance to wound. That seems better than 5% to me.

    You cannot compare the odds of an armor roll, which only occurs after succeeding at an earlier roll, with the odds of a roll that bypasses the armor roll completely.
     
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  16. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    The PDF is always the ultimate source for anything (except a very brief period when a second or third wave of fixes is pushed to army after a major update and then back-added to the PDF). The Wiki, Army and other resources are meant to reproduce the content of the PDF, not the other way around.
     
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  17. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    Semantics aside, the point is that a Normal hit will remove the Mate from any unit. A Crit only does so against single wound Symbionts, due to a removing the Armor, not the Mate directly.

    This is the question at hand and debating about my personal opinion of getting a normal hit being better than getting a Crit against multi-wound mates isn't really accomplishing anything.
     
  18. DukeofEarl

    DukeofEarl Well-Known Member

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    And yet I've been waiting for a correction or clarification to MMLX on the Wiki for months now after noting repeatedly that it does not match with the printed or PDF version of the rule (the Wiki has a line that shouldn't be there, the first bullet point), but was in the version IJW got from CB.
     
  19. Bellyflop

    Bellyflop Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly how it worked with old symbiomates.
     
  20. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    thats great, You dont get Total immunity until the symbio mate has activated....

    If you dont activate the mate, you will be making an BTS roll