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Critical Hits and Impact Templates

Discussion in 'Rules' started by paraelix, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'll bite and be the one to officially ask -

    When a model rolls a critical hit using an Impact Template weapon, the Critical *effects* only apply to the original target - those hit by the blast must roll FTF in their attempts to dodge.

    Do the collateral targets roll their respective dodges against a target of the opposing player's successful roll, or is the original dice roll still considered to be a Critical - thus requiring the defender to also roll a Critical success on their dodge in order to avoid?

    I'm on the fence with this issue - I see the logic behind the roll remaining a Critical, but I also baulk at considering auto-winning a FTF roll as anything other than an effect of rolling said Critical.
     
  2. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    I think we've gotten different answers over time, and the old forum is gone.

    The original answer was that it counts as a critical for FtF resolution but doesn't auto-wound; however, I think that got changed at some point and now it is treated as an ordinary roll of that numerical value.
     
  3. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Critical Hits with Templates
    Rolling a Critical in an Attack Roll with a Template Weapon causes the target of the attack (and only the target) to suffer Damage automatically and lose one point of Wounds/Structure, bypassing the ARM or BTS Roll, and applies what its Special Ammunition specifies in case of Critical.

    Other troopers affected by the Template do not suffer the effects of the Critical, but they still suffer the regular effects of the Template.


    Based on the phrasing of the last line, I would guess that it is not treated as a critical hit for the other units under the template. Unfortunately, there's not an example in the rules.
     
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  4. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    I may be misunderstand, and might also be mistaken anyway, but thought this is managed in two parts.

    Taking Boarding Shotgun for example: the BS part of the attack is Face to Face with the target; the Impact Template is placed at declaration, so affected defenders can ARO as they choose.

    Roll the FtF, if successful, the template goes down and does affect the collateral units. The FtF is critical, as per quoted rules, but for units affected by the template it’s metely the value on the dice, not also Critical.
     
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  5. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    If you're not careful here you can reach the wrong conclusion. You don't have to "win" the F2F with the main target for the template to go down, you simply need to have rolled a "success" that could have subsequently been canceled by a better "success" from that target.

    Template thrower rolls once. All enemies compare to that figure's roll. Criticals only affect main target.
     
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  6. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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    It would be good if someone could try to describe the process comprehensively; any takers?
     
  7. Sabin76

    Sabin76 Well-Known Member

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    1. Spend order and declare BS attack with impact template weapon. At this point, lay the template down to see if anyone that normally wouldn't get an ARO gets clipped so that they can dodge (at -3).
    2. Roll dice. Every enemy caught in the template is rolling against the attacker's dice... it's as if the attacker rolled those numbers against each target with two exceptions: auto-wound for criticals only count on the main target (they count as non critical rolls that can be beaten for all other targets) and MODs for the roll only come from the main target.
    3. ????
    4. Profit.

    Editted to make it clear that it is the auto-wound part of the crits that only affects the main target.

    Editted again after FAQ (April 11, 2019)
     
    #7 Sabin76, Apr 8, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  8. Wolf

    Wolf https://watchwolf.net

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  9. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    no, it never got changed, its the only ruling we've ever had on the subject
    As to precedent and tagging supporting parties @inane.imp @deltakilo @Hachiman Taro @barakiel
    Please just a mild comment please guys
    @HellLois add this to the list.

    A solved thread here would do wonders now the old forums with the old ruling got tanked.

    The ruling was:
    that it counts as a critical for FtF resolution but doesn't auto-wound.
     
    #9 daboarder, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  10. toadchild

    toadchild EI Aspect
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    Thanks, my memory is sometimes fallible and I appreciate folks double-checking what I say.
     
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  11. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    no worries

    still have no idea what its supposed to be now.
     
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  12. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    @ijw has opposed the above interpretation on FB. The argument being that it states those hit by the template do not suffer the effects of the Critical - effects, not "Effects" as in the explanation on the ammo types.

    Auto-winning a FtF is an effect of rolling a Critical hit.

    A clear ruling from CB would be appreciated, though.
     
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Well-Known Member

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    Wait... what the fuck?
     
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  14. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Yes,

    This was a ruling on the old forums post HSN3
    Hes also acknowledged the previous ruling exists and opposes it now on the grounds that the old forum is no longer active.

    That doesnt change that the ruling exists
     
  15. paraelix

    paraelix Well-Known Member

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    A ruling that nobody seems able to produce is pretty much the same as no ruling.
     
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  16. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    And yet it exists and the questipn was anwered.
    Why ignore an answer. Why aks again a question that is already resolved
     
  17. meikyoushisui

    meikyoushisui Competitor for Most Ignored User

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    Because an answer that isn't documented isn't an answer at all.

    The old forums are still cached in Google last I checked, so if you can google the right thread you may be able to pull up a Wayback Machine or Archive.org page for it.
     
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  18. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    Ok better question.

    Why would anyone expect the answer to have changed. There is a facebook discussion about the validity of the original answer.

    Nothing suggests that CBs answer to the question has changed.

    While clarrification and a new source is something i think we would all be greatful for, there is nothing to suggest the game has been erratad
     
  19. Alphz

    Alphz Kuang Shi Vet. Retired.

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    Oh wow, this would certainly explain why people overseas think impact templates are bonkers. They're pretty good, but with this they're nuts.
    A crit affecting several models is a pretty good buff for weapons I found to be very good to start with.

    I would be completely unsurprised (and kind of hopeful) if CB comes back on this one and renegs on the (alleged) ruling that toadchild Daboarder is referring to.
     
    #19 Alphz, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  20. daboarder

    daboarder Force One Commander
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    You mean the one toadchild pointed out first.